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Probblem locked wheel

5K views 61 replies 10 participants last post by  gwinter 
#1 · (Edited)
hello i have a Alfa 147 1.6 ts never have major problems and now came this experience i never had in a car.

When the engine gets hot the wheel gets stuck !! I initially thought it was the gearbox, it all looks okay! The clutch was changed to 30k looks ok! The car accelerates and moves, but begins to smell the clutch due to the effort (like hand brake on and try to move the car) !! the car IN COLD WORKS AND DRIVES NO PROBLEM! but in normal working temp teh problem start bloked wheel after use brake. I went to the mechanic and at the beginning said they were clogged dot4 tubes (the tubes were changed and it continued same problem) now it says it's from the ABS pump and said it would have to pay € 500 for one used! I decided to take the car out of the mechanic and ask for help !! He is now without brakes because the circuit has been bled. Never appeared error warning ABS and I use bluetooth obd2 and never appeared ABS faults. i like to know if its really ABS pump fault and nothing more simple and mechanic likes money. thank you for help
 

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#10 · (Edited)
Hello today I was with the car trying to find a solution!
I bleed all the wheels ok and the front wheel was the metal hose that comes from the ABS pump. DISCONNECT, but despite the oil stains, I do not see any oil come out pressing the pedal ... I do not know what's going on !! I think the problem of bloked weel is the front right oil brake tube that does not have oil going out like anothers 3 wheel i bleed no problem

https://postimg.org/image/nt32ofuw3/

disconected line and no oil goes out from here

https://postimg.org/image/j6dqyjf6n/

a have a question
i disconet the line has you can see from abs pump says FR i think front right brake!! if i press the break pedal ths oil come out from the BAS pump hole? (for see if pump or line problem) i dont do this bacause im alone and have afraid of came out oil and burn the paint
 
#11 · (Edited)
Yes. I think that is correct. If no fluid from that hole, then the ABS pump has an internal valve that is shut. That would explain your FR brake being held on, and the pads dragging on the disk. Heat expansion would make that more severe, with smells of burning brake pad eventually.
5
Did you try with the ABS fuse removed? If that FR brake works correctly, it seems more likely to be a problem with the ABS electronics/computer, rather than the pump itself.

Use a cloth to catch the fluid, and just press the pedal a little and gently.

If you look on ebay.co.uk you will find lots of secondhand ABS pumps for around 30-60EUR. There's no great demand for them as mostly they don't go wrong.
 
#12 ·
hi, thank you

i remove ABS 50 amp fuse and have pannel ABS error light! the car breaks very bad the pedal goes deep and need to work with handbrake also. As I do not leave oil for the front wheel I did not see the block of the wheel !! What I want to know now is whether the problem is of the ABS pump or the clogged line !! Tomorrow I will disconnect the pump to brake cable and ask someone to check the pump hole for see if no oil comes out to confirm if the problem is the pump.

For the oil to come out of the abs pump is it necessary for the pump to be connected to the fuse and the engine to work? thank you

BTW i buy ebay used pump days ago, for 40€ now i need to wait, the mechanic here buy for same money and asks for 500€:grumpy:
 
#14 ·
If it's causing the wheel to lock on it'll likely be related to the VDC function which actively brakes the wheels independently of the brake pedal being pressed. There's a valve in the ABS control block specifically used for this function. When it closes it directs fluid pressure from the ABS pump directly to the wheel that needs breaking. Nicely described here: http://www.bmwtech.ru/pdf/e46/ST034/13 P1 Traction and Stability Control Internet.pdf
 
#18 ·
I still think that ABS (including VDC) should do nothing with the engine off or fuses removed AND that no fluid emerging from the RF hole means an internal valve is stuck closed. Fitting the replacement ABS you have bought should fix the problem.

You should probably clear as much air as possible from the ABS before connecting the brake lines. IE just connect the 2 input lines and pump the pedal until fluid emerges from the 4 holes. Then connect them and bleed the entire brake system.

The only thing with changing the ABS pump is that you will (I think) need to do a Proxy alignment in MultiECUScan, to mate the new ABS ECU to the car ECU. The odometer will flash until this is done.
 
#23 ·
I think you will need a Proxy alignment. Each CANbus device has its own unique address, like a MAC address on a computer network. CANbus is a computer network, so it needs to be told the new device is present and part of the network so it can recognise comms to and from it. Simple passive sensors and actuators don't have addresses but the ABS has its own ECU (which is a proxy for the main ECU).

Torque is useful for on-the-road diagnostics, but it's well worth buying MES (the freeware version won't do a Proxy alignment) and cables if you have a Windows laptop or tablet. It will cost less than getting the codes read or reset just once by a garage. If you do your own servicing and maintenance, you can't really get far without it.
 
#24 · (Edited)
hello bad news!! today i had help and in the pump, fuse, no fuse car on and off the pump only expells oil in the front left tyre...i remove lines one by one... another 3 is clogged! another day im alone dont bleed well.very strange because the machanic teel me only front right tyre have the block problem... i need to wait for the new pump!!! how to avoid clogged pump? thanks
 
#25 ·
It may just be that you now have so much air in the system that the master cylinder won't pump fluid properly.

If the abs controller was faulty it would detect the fault, turn the valves off, and give you a warning light.

It doesn't seem likely that three ABS valves would stick, except....

If the brake fluid has been contaminated with petroleum oil of any kind it will make the seals swell and could make the abs valves stick (in which case all the seals in the brake system will have to be changed). But, if your fluid is good.....

I would start with the basics: put the system together again and bleed it carefully*. Then find out which brake is affected by touching the disks after driving. So long as you use the brakes as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE the faulty one(s) will be much hotter than the others (take care!).

If all the brakes are hot suspect the brake servo.

If just one, check that caliper for 'binding' (sticking). Only suspect the ABS if the caliper is good.

*If the master cylinder is full of air you may have to apply pressure at the reservoir, or vacuum at a bleed nipple to get started. (If these methods won't make fluid flow from a caliper then you may have a master cylinder or ABS fault)
 
#26 ·
It might just be that the whole ABS unit has internal corrosion, from not having had fluid changed regularly, and dirt has been dislodged by all the bleeding and is now causing the modulation valves to stick.

I think MES allows testing of each valve individually (although I've never done it), and I have a vague memory that I've read that should be done as part of bleeding the system in order to clear old fluid from the ABS unit. It might be worth checking this, and waiting until you have MES to see if the ABS valves can be actuated.

Sorry to be vague, but I am no expert on ABS. Google may find more information.
 
#27 ·
good day. i have bad luck. now the pump shipping from the Uk is late!!!

(We are writing to inform you that your GSP order is currently under review for potential prohibited items and may experience a delay of 3-5 business days.)

Global Shipping Programme
 
#29 · (Edited)
#30 ·
Looks like that was removed by a professional .. :bow:

... (won't say what!)
 
#31 · (Edited)
I don't think there's an easy way to test it before installation. Before connecting the inlet pipes to the ABS it would probably a good idea to make sure the master cylinder circuits are both working properly - ie fluid emerges from both inlet pipes when you press the pedal a little.

If that's OK then connect the two inlet pipes to the ABS and see if you get fluid from all the outlets. If so, then connect the 4 outlet pipes, then electrics, then bleed the whole system. As I said, I think bleeding the ABS is supposed to include actuating the valves from MES, but I know nothing about the procedure. Google may find info, as many people must have had to do this.

I'm unsure your ELM327 will work for this. You may need a KKL cable with adaptors like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cable-Ada...KKL-for-MultiECUScan-FiatECUSca-/271508845753 I have two ELM's, one BT, one cabled. They both work for some things, not others - eg I can't recode fuel injectors, only read the injector codes, but KKL works fine.
 
#32 ·
#34 ·
You might not be able to bleed it properly in which case the brakes will be lethal!
 
#36 ·
ELM should work with the ABS but it needs modifying internally or an adapter cable. The MultiECUScan site should explain what needs soldering inside the ELM housing to get ELM1 to work. Just 1 additional connector pin needs connecting to the main board data input pin (which is usually only connected to the Engine ECU data pin by default). If you're OK with a soldering iron it's easy enough to do.
 
#42 ·
eLearn doesn't mention any special procedure after changing the ABS module. Just says connect up a pressure bleeder and bleed from the calipers, same as you'd do when routinely flushing the brakes. No mention of operating the ABS valves via diagnostics. Not sure that makes sense because it's hard to see how air can escape from the ports in the valve block that that are normally shutoff when the ABS isn't triggering. Having said that any fluid in these ports would also be trapped once the valves closed so air wouldn't be able to get in. Does Bosch fill and bleed the modules in the the factory ?
 
#43 · (Edited)
Unfortunately I can't remember where I got the idea that there was an MES procedure for ensuring the ABS was properly bled, but ('cos I'd like to know) I looked and found lots of people having lots of trouble, but this looks helpful http://www.alfadriver.com/forum/index.php/topic/3299-abs-bleed-using-multiecuscan/

[EDIT:Though reading some more posts elsewhere, some people - including an Alfa mechanic - say this isn't necessary, and normal bleeding methods will do it but it can take a long time and a lot of brake fluid].
 
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