Oil advice please - Fully or Semi Synthetic? - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
(Post Link) post #1 of 36 Old 15-10-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Mighty-147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Devon
Posts: 273
Well Happy Oil advice please - Fully or Semi Synthetic?

Hello,

Just a quicky bit of advice please?

147 2.0L Petrol Manual 2001 90K

I'm using 10/40 and have used 10/60 before (in different oil changes don't worry I haven't mixed the grades)...

Regardless;

Should I use Fully or Semi Synthetic Oil please?

Is there a lot of difference? Given the choice which is best please?
Mighty-147 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,048
First of all, any easily obtainable modern oil will mix fine with any other. So mixing grades isn't an issue. Not ideal, but not an issue.

I originally ran my 2.0TS on Castrol RS 10W60, then changed to very expensive Redline 10W40 (a top TOP synthetic), then much later changed to Motul 8100 X-CESS 5W40

BEST, as always comes down to price, but that Motul was good, especially for the price, you won't find it on the High Street though.


You will never get any agreement on a forum oil thread though!!!
David C is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 36 Old 15-10-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Mighty-147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Devon
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
First of all, any easily obtainable modern oil will mix fine with any other. So mixing grades isn't an issue. Not ideal, but not an issue.

I originally ran my 2.0TS on Castrol RS 10W60, then changed to very expensive Redline 10W40 (a top TOP synthetic), then much later changed to Motul 8100 X-CESS 5W40

BEST, as always comes down to price, but that Motul was good, especially for the price, you won't find it on the High Street though.


You will never get any agreement on a forum oil thread though!!!
Thanks David C!

In the past I used Selenia Racing 10w60,

Then for a time Magnatec 10w40

Now I'm using Petronas 1000 10w40 Fully Synthetic.

I've spotted Petronas 800 EU 10w40 which is Semi Synthetic and considerably cheaper...

My question is simply which is best - Fully or Semi Synthetic please?

Thanks!
Mighty-147 is offline  
Status: On Alfa number 15
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 33,786
Images: 13
Fully synthetic is better, especially an Ester or POA based. Most cheaper synthetics are hydrocracked mineral oils and are not as good as these (but still better than a mineral or semi)

One problem with semi synthetics is that you have no idea how much synthetic you are getting mixed into the mineral base stock.

You could argue the extra expense of full synthetics isn't worth the outlay, especially on a road driven car.

All oils have come a long way in the last 20 years or so, and partly because of this engines don't wear out anywhere near as quickly as they used to even with cheaper oils.

You might get 160,000 miles out of a TS on semi synthetic before a rebuild, you may get 200,000 miles on the same car running a fully synthetic. If the car is falling apart elsewhere at 160k then it wasn't really worth the extra outlay to make the engine last longer.

I used to run my TS cars on Gulf Formula G 5w-40 (hydrocracked fully synthetic) and they went very well on it, I also tried Texaco 5w-40 synthetic and the engine was very happy on that also.

The Triple QX fully synthetic 5w-40 from Eurocarparts for 17 or so is a lower spec synthetic oil but the engine will be fine on it.
Mighty-147 likes this.

You will never be cool driving a Vauxhall.

Last edited by symon; 15-10-16 at 17:57.
symon is offline  
Status: Flaps? What flaps?
AO Silver Member
 
_The_Editor_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: United Kingdom
County: Devon
Posts: 2,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty-147 View Post

My question is simply which is best - Fully or Semi Synthetic please?
Both/neither/it depends.

A top quality semi-syn is usually better than a cheapo fully-syn. That being said, there's nothing wrong in using the correct grade of semi-syn!

I'd highly recommend getting in touch with the guys at Opie Oils for a recommendation. They'll pick out a few options for you at different price points, all will be suitable for your car and your usage. From this list the more you spend the better the oil will be, but all of the oil will be suitable.
_The_Editor_ is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty-147 View Post
Now I'm using Petronas 1000 10w40 Fully Synthetic.

I've spotted Petronas 800 EU 10w40 which is Semi Synthetic and considerably cheaper...

My question is simply which is best - Fully or Semi Synthetic please?
I'm sure the Petronas 1000 10w40 wasn't a Full Synthetic and I suspect has been replaced by Petronas 800 EU 10w40
Mighty-147 likes this.
David C is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Alan Walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Devon
Posts: 406
I think a quality version of either will be fine. I use Valvoline VR1 10/60 in my GT 3.2. Far more important is to use an OEM oil filter and to change that and the oil every 6000 miles.
Alan Walker is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Denmark
County: North Sealand-
Posts: 1,260
Lubricant oils and a number of other things are mythical religious issues for car fanatics.
Originally Alfa specified a Selenia 10W-40 for the 147 and 156 engines, mostly 2,0 TS and JTS. A number of these engine consumed some oil and a Selenia 10W-60 was recommended in these circumstances. Either by Alfa or the dealers.
I wouldn't use a 5W-40 oil in a 10+ years and 125.000 mile engine as I wouldn't start using fully sync oils in such old engine unless it has been used before for a long time. Sediments around the oil ways may get loose and circle round round oil ways and maybe block a lubrication point.
Erik Loye is offline  
Status: Vivat least vaguest.
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
County: -
Posts: 708
In a motor design infamous for cam lobe wear, I'd suggest the oil with greatest amount of ZDDP is what you want.
addo is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Denmark
County: North Sealand-
Posts: 1,260
My ex 156 TS did 135.000 with out any engine probs or oil consumption, so I can't subscribe to addo's opinion.
Erik Loye is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Mighty-147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Devon
Posts: 273
Well Happy Well Oil be....

Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
I'm sure the Petronas 1000 10w40 wasn't a Full Synthetic and I suspect has been replaced by Petronas 800 EU 10w40
Hmmm....

I suspect you may be correct in your assumption;

I have attached two images of them both.

'Synthetic Based' on the 1000 - so perhaps not entirely fully synthetic?.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PetronasSyntium10001040.jpg (66.5 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg PetronasSyntium800EU1040.jpg (55.6 KB, 7 views)
Mighty-147 is offline  
(Post Link) post #12 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Mighty-147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Devon
Posts: 273
Well Happy

1
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PetronasSyntium10001040.jpg (66.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg PetronasSyntium800EU1040.jpg (55.6 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by Mighty-147; 2 Weeks Ago at 16:14. Reason: posted twice by mistake please delete this one thanks
Mighty-147 is offline  
(Post Link) post #13 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: On Alfa number 15
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 33,786
Images: 13
Synthetic based usually means semi-synthetic.

But with either you have no idea what percentage of the oil is synthetic, and what is made up of mineral.
symon is offline  
(Post Link) post #14 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: Vivat least vaguest.
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
County: -
Posts: 708
So you get a free guessing game with every purchase?

If a manufacturer is avoiding disclosure you can probably assume the item meets minimum specs as per its labelled qualities but barely goes above that level.
addo is offline  
(Post Link) post #15 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
TOX1C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amesbury
County: Wiltshire
Posts: 4,354
Images: 9
I'm using Millers Nanodrive 10w-50 in the GTA. The engine runs cooler and seems more responsive - there is evidence that with less friction, which is what Millers claim, comes an increase in power.
cgc likes this.
TOX1C is offline  
(Post Link) post #16 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: Freezing!
AO Silver Member
 
Rockhopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Loye View Post
Lubricant oils and a number of other things are mythical religious issues for car fanatics.
Originally Alfa specified a Selenia 10W-40 for the 147 and 156 engines, mostly 2,0 TS and JTS. A number of these engine consumed some oil and a Selenia 10W-60 was recommended in these circumstances. Either by Alfa or the dealers.
I wouldn't use a 5W-40 oil in a 10+ years and 125.000 mile engine as I wouldn't start using fully sync oils in such old engine unless it has been used before for a long time. Sediments around the oil ways may get loose and circle round round oil ways and maybe block a lubrication point.
The Selinia brand used to be owned by the Fiat group which is why it was recommended for Alfas.
Rockhopper is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
cgc
Status: Dreaming of upgrades
AO Member
 
cgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Monmouthshire
Posts: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOX1C View Post
I'm using Millers Nanodrive 10w-50 in the GTA. The engine runs cooler and seems more responsive - there is evidence that with less friction, which is what Millers claim, comes an increase in power.
I use the same oil in 5w40 guise, it's ester based and so is less effected by the chopping effect of the crank. I think it's the best you can get.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
cgc is offline  
(Post Link) post #18 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
County: -
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc View Post
I use the same oil in 5w40 guise, it's ester based and so is less effected by the chopping effect of the crank. I think it's the best you can get.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Every single post on this thread makes a valid point.
If an engine has been neglected; from a servicing point of view or just had cheap fleet service oil all it`s life, then a sump full of fully syn will quickly result in a harsh, oil burning unit requiring a rebuild.
If you live in a place that`s cold ie around freezing then a 5/w40 would be ideal.
If on the other hand you live in say Oz and drive every were at 80mph your oil is going to get very hot in this case a 10/w60 is more suitable.
From experience, a critical temp seems to be 110-120degC. Any thing in this range would bests suite a 10/w60. If by the time you get to work and the oil temp is below 100degC then a 10/w40 or if a low milage engine then 5/w40 will work fine.
If a semi syn. is used, then simply change it more often.Like what has already been said use a good filter. and certainly not a 5.00 job from a aftermarket sales type place.
Car Improvments is offline  
(Post Link) post #19 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: Vivat least vaguest.
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
County: -
Posts: 708
Not many places you can drive at 80MPH in Oz, believe me.

At least, not for long ("Ello, ello, ello...") save for the Northern Territory, where there are a few delimited stretches. Our man here from Namibia (Aramis) works his oil pretty hard, he's less worried about speeding fines than Aussies are.
addo is offline  
(Post Link) post #20 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
County: -
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by addo View Post
Not many places you can drive at 80MPH in Oz, believe me.

At least, not for long ("Ello, ello, ello...") save for the Northern Territory, where there are a few delimited stretches. Our man here from Namibia (Aramis) works his oil pretty hard, he's less worried about speeding fines than Aussies are.
Very well put. Of course no respectable Alfa driver would ever consider doing such a thing! We`ll leave that to the rice burner brigade. That`s why
i drive a 3l v6 just so i can do 30mph and not have to worry about my oil getting too hot
Car Improvments is offline  
(Post Link) post #21 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
County: -
Posts: 90
Garage

Member car:

147 1.6 120CV

Here in Greece, all the TSPARK engines I heard about drink a lot of oil. Might be the temperature, might be how we drive like idiots, but seems to be the norm.

On my 1.6 120CV 147 with 162000kms nowadays I have tried 3 types of oil:

ENEOS 10W40 (Semi Synthetic) No consumption until 2-3000kms, afterwards more than 500ml/1000km
Generic noname cheapest 10W40, around 200ml/1000km until 4000km, then almost a liter per 1000km
Selenia 20K Alfa Romeo, Around 400ml/1000km from the first km, actually seems to drink less the more kilometers I do.

My mechanic says that's the norm, and the 3 recommended oils for my car are the Selenia 20K, the Syntium 1000 and the AGIP ENI SINT 10/40. From his experience Agip has the lower consumption, but his opinion is to stick with Selenia if I don't mind the cost, especially since I do a lot of city driving and high speed trips.
kourampies is offline  
(Post Link) post #22 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: Vivat least vaguest.
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
County: -
Posts: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Improvments View Post
Very well put. Of course no respectable Alfa driver would ever consider doing such a thing!
Absolutely; if my insurer ever reads these comments, it's important they come away from here with the indisputable realisation I am sensible and law abiding.
addo is offline  
(Post Link) post #23 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
cgc
Status: Dreaming of upgrades
AO Member
 
cgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Monmouthshire
Posts: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Improvments View Post
Every single post on this thread makes a valid point.
If an engine has been neglected; from a servicing point of view or just had cheap fleet service oil all it`s life, then a sump full of fully syn will quickly result in a harsh, oil burning unit requiring a rebuild.
If you live in a place that`s cold ie around freezing then a 5/w40 would be ideal.
If on the other hand you live in say Oz and drive every were at 80mph your oil is going to get very hot in this case a 10/w60 is more suitable.
From experience, a critical temp seems to be 110-120degC. Any thing in this range would bests suite a 10/w60. If by the time you get to work and the oil temp is below 100degC then a 10/w40 or if a low milage engine then 5/w40 will work fine.
If a semi syn. is used, then simply change it more often.Like what has already been said use a good filter. and certainly not a 5.00 job from a aftermarket sales type place.
Which brands are good oil filters? I didn't know there was much difference.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
cgc is offline  
(Post Link) post #24 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
County: -
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc View Post
Which brands are good oil filters? I didn't know there was much difference.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Pure Flux or Mann filters are a safe bet as they are both oem`s.
K&N (the air filter company) also make excellent oil filters, which if weight is any thing to go by (and it is) then they put more filtration median than a original item.
Car Improvments is offline  
(Post Link) post #25 of 36 Old 2 Weeks Ago
Status: Vivat least vaguest.
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
County: -
Posts: 708
I think this is something best satisfied by destructive testing of a sample in each prospective brand. Findings on the 'net, like the famous "oil filter study" are probably out of date considering the rapid lurches of many manufacturers towards Asia and the vagaries of quality that may bring.

Consider this, for example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Peug...438742214.html

I honestly have no idea if it's genuine or a complete forgery!
addo is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 147, 156 & GT

Tags
advice , fully , oil , semi , synthetic

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome