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GT headlight washers caused faI led mot today

Folks, please help with a headlight washer issue, as it was the cause of my failed mot today (well, that and front tyres which I expected).

Tried to look for info, but after 15 or so threads, no joy. Time is of the essence, so posting this up now before reading more threads. If you know of another thread, a link would be a godsend.

So, the issue is that they do not push out of the bumper. Can hear the water motor etc, they just don't move outwards to spray and then retract back. I've hot lazy washers that just stay put.

Garage wants 75 to take a look (remove front bumper and put back so charging hours labour), so told them no for now, as that could fix it or more likely Leeds to needing parts or other such work, thus ending up in hundreds of pounds for washers I do not use much/at all and that are totally pointless when used (we get enough rain that they are cleaner when dirty than a half arsed little squirt, with no wiper, could ever make them).

Any info would be great, as can't really be without car due to no mot, and I'm not paying 100's out for the crappy things.

Cheers, Upex
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I'm no expert, but surely if you take the fuse out for the washer circuit, it will be inoperative. They can't fail you otherwise they would fail every car that didn't have headlamp washers.
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I presume you have HID headlights as they are not an MOT item for Halogen.

Have you tried gently pulling them out while someone else triggers them?
If you haven't been using them they may have seized up from lack of use.

How are they triggered on the GT? Is it instantly with the lights on or after a delay?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Walker View Post
I'm no expert, but surely if you take the fuse out for the washer circuit, it will be inoperative. They can't fail you otherwise they would fail every car that didn't have headlamp washers.
If they are fitted but not working they are a fail.
If they are not there at all, it is a pass.

So taking the fuse out is a fail!
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If they are fitted but not working they are a fail.
If they are not there at all, it is a pass.

So taking the fuse out is a fail!
That's absolutely crazy IMHO.
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Originally Posted by Alan Walker View Post
That's absolutely crazy IMHO.
The UK MOT regs are written to allow for the few cars with OEM HIDs but no washers or self-levelling. They do exist. Not many, but enough.

It is actually a well thought out section.

Have a read of that section of the MOT manual.
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(Post Link) post #7 of 40 Old 14-09-16 Thread Starter
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Alan, as per David's reply, if fitted, must work.

David, not tried anything yet, can be a bit heavy handed and didn't want to break anything by fiddling until had chance for the forums guidance. Will give the gentle pull a try though.

Yes, I have a retro quad bi zenon instal, it's blooming marvelous and I've. Other even added the quad switch yet (it's just on 1 pair as dip and both pairs with solenoids up (or down as the case maybe) when on main, which is never used as the dips are more than enough on their own. Best mod I ever done to any car (perhaps with the 1 except of adding nos to a prelude, back in my yobbish days many years ago lol)).

Regards how they trigger on a gt, I've not got a clue. Assume it needs the washer (screen) to be activated whilst dip or main lights on, but after that, not a foggy.

I also have no idea how they work, i.e. is it the water pressure that lifts them out and a spring of some sort pulls them back in, or are they driven by motors/actuators etc. Partly the reason I didn't want to start pulling and strip teeth etc.

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I agree with both alan and David,

David as one of my former cars had factory hids, with self level but no washers. I'd have been peed if had to swap lights to a halogen pair to pass mot.

Alan as I'm not sure that I get it when no wipers are present, as the water does naff all on its own. Now if it applied to those that also had headlight wipers, that'd make more sense, but how many old knackered volvos do you see with their light wipers hanging off or sticking out etc. But as they aren't zenon, that's just fine.

Crazy world!
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Can't believe that's a fail. I definitely had a sierra with head lamp wipers and squirters that didn't function. Passed every time. Broken fog lamps should go through too.
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Originally Posted by dgmayhead View Post
Can't believe that's a fail. I definitely had a sierra with head lamp wipers and squirters that didn't function. Passed every time. Broken fog lamps should go through too.
Was it halogen though? As the rules only apply to zenon lights. I think it's because they are brighter and thus they not wanting dirt to alter the beam and blind folks, but blinding by halogen is ok
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Since when did laws have to bear any resemblance to common sense?

The headlight washers I've seen on late '90s and early 2000s cars used a fairly stout pump motor that provided enough pressure to push the jet and cosmetic cap out from the bar and squirt the lenses. Internal springing caused the jet to return once the motor stopped.
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They are operated simply by water pressure, when the lights are on and you use the screen washers a second pump is activated that feeds to the headlight washers.

The water pressure pushes the jets up and then the water is squirted onto the lights.

Probably the first place to start is check that a fuse hasn't already been pulled as the have a tendency to dribble and empty the washer reservoir, after that check the pump is working, it's located in the washer reservoir bottle, after that your onto the pipe work and washers themselves, that have a liking for cracking (and leaking as said earlier) so no pressure builds up to push them up.
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(Post Link) post #13 of 40 Old 15-09-16 Thread Starter
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Thanks folks, I hoped as much. Easier and cheaper than stupid little motor and such, or so I'd hope anyway.

This is a great help, as can start looking now, so many thanks for the posts.

Do you know if they trigger immediately, or after a delay (as David asked above) on the gt?

Anyone happen to know a place for the parts, preferably with epc as I've not got a clue of the part numbers in case need to order new ones.
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I have replaced the front bumper on my 147 and the replacement has washer jets integrated in to the bumper but of course, no piping or wiring etc. as my car has never had washer jets for the headlights.
Would this be an MOT fail not that I have the different bumper?

If I want to retro fit the washer system, what else would I need as the gubbing behind the bumper are there but that's all (pipes were cut)
thanks.
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Originally Posted by jayceb View Post
I have replaced the front bumper on my 147 and the replacement has washer jets integrated in to the bumper but of course, no piping or wiring etc. as my car has never had washer jets for the headlights.
Would this be an MOT fail not that I have the different bumper?
If you have Halogen headlights, the washers are not part of the MOT.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upex View Post
... Do you know if they trigger immediately, or after a delay (as David asked above) on the gt?
From memory (I've mine disabled for years, fuse removed & pipe cut & blocked) on my 147 (probably the same on a GT) they only work on dipped beams & are on a time delay so you can spray the windscreen without spraying the headlights.
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Description
The headlamp washer device is responsible for washing the front windscreen and the headlamp lens.
The headlamp washer function is managed by the Body Computer which automatically operates the headlamp washers - with the dipped or main beam headlamps on - when the windscreen washer is operated, via the lever on the right of the steering wheel.
The headlamp washer device consists of a detergent delivery pump and a nozzle in the bumpers that sprays a powerful jet onto the headlamp.
A timer operates the headlamp washer pump in a series of half second pulses.
The headlamp washer circuit is protected by a fuse and adjusted by a specific relay, located in the engine compartment control unit.
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So with the headlight on, it sprays the headlights whenever you wash the screen?

If so, same as my 156 was and a bit naff as I used to empty the screen wash halfway through a drive in the winter!!
My TT on the otherhand has a delay, so you need to keep holding the stalk back for some time to spray the headlights. Result: far less screen wash used.
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So with the headlight on, it sprays the headlights whenever you wash the screen?
Yes, which is why I pulled the fuse on mine.... It used a lot of water.
In addition, it always sprayed water all over the bonnet, making a mess
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It was possible to do multiple short sprays so the headlight washer didn't activate on my 147 F/L

I'd have preferred not to have had the washers in the first place but they were part of the Winter Pack, as you say a waste of water, especially when the leaked.
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It was possible to do multiple short sprays so the headlight washer didn't activate on my 147 F/L
....
yes, but that was not by design, but just fooling the system as the jets take some time to mechanicaly activate
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A useful method all the same
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(Post Link) post #23 of 40 Old 15-09-16 Thread Starter
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Cheers all, guess I have some digging about to do.

Pulled them out with fingers today and worked back and forth a bit to see if they would free up. 1 is stiffer than the other and doesn't retract 100%. Not far off like, bit the cover bit has a 3mm gap on one side. The other was a pita to grab hold of, it's spring return is definitely strong lol. Perhaps the washers are fine, but the pump and lines are cracked, blocked, or whatever causing a lower pressure than needed to move them out against the finger losing strong spring and the not overly free moving one.

Many thanks for the input. Knowing how they work is a big help. I was thinking motors and gears may have broke, but least it's simpler than that.

1 thing I did note today, that each sprayer has 2 nozzles (round bits that channel the water to pin holes) each, but on one side, a nozzle is missing, just an empty round indent where it should sit. I assume then that this will not help build the required pressure and wonder if you can get them separately, or if I need a while new sprayer and bumper off etc?

Thanks for the input folks
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Most of the gimbal type nozzles just clip in, rob one from almost any scrap car with similar washers in the bumper.

You'll notice most of these setups have the same basic mechanism with a styled cap that is clipped over the front per whatever marque it's on.
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Cheers addo, didn't fancy buying a whole unit for that little bit lol.
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