Please help with throttle body problem - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 13 Old 12-09-16 Thread Starter
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Please help with throttle body problem

Hello, even though I have an GTV I'm putting this tread here as my problem is related to the type of motor the throttle body is mounted on, I'll explain myself. The throttle body on my GTV is acting up and I've been told that I need to change it. I've been looking for a not so expensive replacement, the original part runs at over 1000 and I just cannot afford it. As for a used or commercial part there just seems there are no GTV throttle bodies to be found. My car has an 114kw, 2000cc Twin Spark 1998 motor with code ar32301. So I'm supposing that any Alfa model mounting that engine will have the same throttle body, can anybody confirm that?
I've run into various throttle body codes: Fiat, Alfa and Bosch and at the end and, believe me, a whole lot of research, I believe to have found what I retain is the right code: Alfa 60657874.
Can anybody confirm that a throttle with this code will fit in any Alfa model that carries the ar32301, 114kw engine version? Any additional information or clues would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
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That IS the correct Part number of your throttle body. The 98 GTV was a Mechanical throttle body with accelerator cable, similar to the 1999 156 Manual. Later 156 cars came fitted with electronic "Fly By Wire" throttle.

Unfortunately the 98 GTV Throttle body had 2 heater pipes coming from the engine cooling system, the idea was to prevent icing up. This is not a feature on any of the 156/147/GT/GTV cars from 99 onwards. (if I remember correctly)

So unfortunately you need a specific throttle body for the 98 GTV, because of the cooling hoses.

If anyone knows I am in error here in anyway, please speak up.

Baz
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Originally Posted by bazzbazz View Post

If anyone knows I am in error here in anyway, please speak up.

Baz
when have you ever been wrong Guru Bazz ?


lol

Bazz is a wealth of knowledge and has helped many an Alfista in his time

(he even helped me get off drugs once lol ... didnt realise it at the time, didnt even know i was on them lol)
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As a last resort you could always bypass the heated part of the manifold and just join the two pipes together. Icing may not be an issue if the OP lives in a hot country. You could even use Pro FST or similar.
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when have you ever been wrong Guru Bazz ?
It does happen!

You DO remember your talking to a guy who for one brief and unforgettable moment couldn't tell the difference between a Bentley & a Bugatti !!!! DOH!
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It does happen!

You DO remember your talking to a guy who for one brief and unforgettable moment couldn't tell the difference between a Bentley & a Bugatti !!!! DOH!
yes, well, the less said about that the better LoL

ok thats the B's, you never get your A's wrong though, the Alfas

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(Post Link) post #7 of 13 Old 14-09-16 Thread Starter
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Hi Bazzbazz and Rockhopper. thank you for your answers. I'm absolutely not a mechanical prone person so let see if got this right. The code number I mentioned on my post is the right one but dur to heat pipes I'm constrain to get that part but only for a '98 or earlier car? Could I work out Rockhopper's option, I mean, would my mechanic be able to sort the problem out if I got a 1999 or later throttle body? Also, somebody suggested that it could be a idle control problem, do you think that could be the problem and I could change only the idle control mechanisms?
I'm putting a link to an eBay seller who sells idle contro valves hoping you can tell me if, maybe, this would be the right part and I could try to change that first. I'm very thankful for any solutions you can propose as I'm literally going nuts trying to solve this problem.
http://www.ebay.at/itm/Alfa-Romeo-14...0AAOxyD5pRIgfY
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Well as your is a cable version, the actual butterfly and cable parts operate the actual "throttle" so as long as the cable is adjusted & operating properly, there is little that can go wrong. The only other item that is on the throttle is the Idle mechanism, as long as the cable & butterfly is ok I can't see why you could do as you have suggested & replace the Idle control.

Just one thing, you still haven't mentioned at any time what the actual problem it is you have and are trying to cure?

Maybe it might be wise to actually describe the symptoms of your problem, as it may not even be Throttle related.

Baz
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(Post Link) post #9 of 13 Old 15-09-16 Thread Starter
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You are right bazzbazz so here goes a quick run down on what the car is doing. First of all the scanner gives me error P1512 and it says ( I'm translating ) something like "range of regulation of the minimum idle signal out of normal range". when I start the car if I stop and put it in neutral it will idle at around 1200 rpm when still cold. Once in running temp it will, sometimes, go around 2300 rpm and then slowly work its way down to around 1800 rpm. In other occasions it will idle directly at about 1800. At running temp this behavior appears to be random. When it idles above 2000 I put in first gear and move the car just a little as to bring the rpm's to 1800 since it will go lower than that when moving at low speed but it stabilizes at 1800 when stopped.
This how is behaving now a days but when the problem first showed up it could not keep the minimum so the car would idle down and the motor would turn off. Then one day the idle started its actual behavior and it's now doing what I just described with high idle. It's been some months now.
By the way, recently I have changed the spark plugs and the air intake hose as it was slightly broken. Also I cleaned the throttle valve.

Last edited by Lufel; 15-09-16 at 00:27.
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I would say your throttle is not the fault at all, you have an air leak somewhere BEHIND the throttle body. It is usually caused by one of two things:

1/ Right behind the throttle body is your positive crankcase recirculation valve. There is a hose that goes from the Camshaft cover to just behind the Throttle body and attaches to the Manifold by a small black plastic cylinder, inside this is the valve. It is nothing more than a plastic golf Ball tee object and a spring. These get gummed up or the spring fails.
The hose is pretty flimsy at times too and can crack fail.

2/ Right next the Crankcase Valve is the Brake Boost vacuum hose, it is made of plastic and can crack break easily.

Either of these failing will give the High Idle you are experiencing, check them first. If the brake vacuum line is broken or cracked, plug/tape it up, bet your idle goes back to normal. To test the Valve, pull hose off at engine end and block it, again, if stuck open when you block it idle with normalise.

Try these first, you may save yourself some money.

Baz
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(Post Link) post #11 of 13 Old 15-09-16 Thread Starter
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First of all let me tell you that I can’t thank you enough for your help. I’ve already set an appointment with my mechanic on Monday to look up the tips you have proposed but, since I’ve to translated into Italian, which is where I live, let see if I got it right in English.
1 so inside the small black plastic cylinder, in the a hose that goes from the Camshaft cover to just behind the Throttle body and attaches to the Manifold, there is a tee and a spring? And I should look into the tee, the spring and hose to see if everything is in good working condition?
2 Check if the Brake Boost vacuum hose is cracked?
As far as the valve solution goes you are telling me to pull it off from the engines end but I don’t get what do you mean by “and block it, again, if stuck open when you block it”. By blocking it you mean closing the hose end? I’m sorry but English its not my first language and I have to explain to my mechanic in a detail way so that he can act the right procedure.
Again thank you so much for your patience.

Last edited by Lufel; 15-09-16 at 22:39.
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Yes, close the hose end that you have removed from the engine cover side.

If you have an air leak of any type AFTER the Throttle body it will cause engine to idle higher just like you describe.

The valve is supposed to be held closed by the internal spring when the engine is at idle, and only at higher rpm is it supposed to open, to take the crankcase fumes. If it gets stuck open, or the spring breaks or becomes soft it lets air from the crank case in behind the Throttle body at idle, causing the idle to increase higher.

The same happens if the brake vacuum line cracks or breaks.

It is the most common cause of the problem you are having, but do realise, it can be the throttle body control as well, just hope its an air leak, they are much cheaper to fix.

Hope all goes well on Monday, good luck.


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(Post Link) post #13 of 13 Old 16-09-16 Thread Starter
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Will let you know
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