Alfa 147 Lift-Off Oversteer - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Alfa 147 Lift-Off Oversteer

New driver here. Sorry for all the threads I'm creating , i just have so many questions.
I encountered for the first time Lift-Off Oversteer in my new Alfa 147 . Car has changed springs to KW sports made for 147 GTA, really grips well in the corners. Tires are Nexen in the front, Michelin in the back, 225/17 .
I was going round a U turn at 90ish km/h and since I felt some slight understeer, I let off the gas. Immediately i went into an oversteer, which i managed to correct with some gas input. My question is , how can i go about limiting the times it can happen?
It definitely put a scare on my face. Something about my driving style, perhaps some mods on the car?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tishobg View Post
New driver here. Sorry for all the threads I'm creating , i just have so many questions.
I encountered for the first time Lift-Off Oversteer in my new Alfa 147 . Car has changed springs to KW sports made for 147 GTA, really grips well in the corners. Tires are Nexen in the front, Michelin in the back, 225/17 .
I was going round a U turn at 90ish km/h and since I felt some slight understeer, I let off the gas. Immediately i went into an oversteer, which i managed to correct with some gas input. My question is , how can i go about limiting the times it can happen?
It definitely put a scare on my face. Something about my driving style, perhaps some mods on the car?
Don't lift off, problem solved.

Same tyres all road would have a difference, and not nexen.
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Don't lift off, problem solved.

Same tyres all road would have a difference, and not nexen.
Would lifting gradually reduce the weight transfer to the front? Sometimes I overestimate my grip and abilities hence why I do need to lift.
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Sounds like your trying to drive the car hard, when a car is on the limit of over or under steer the slightest change in throttle or steering will cause major unbalance that usually results in over correction then you've got real battle on your hands.
You cant take a car to its limits unless you are familiar with its characteristics when it approaches the limit.
It is down to experience and to be honest i would get used to how the car drives and handles as it is before modifying to make it go even faster, you will end up going home on a recovery truck.
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Stickier tires all round, slow in/fast out (don't enter a corner too fast, it'll cost you far more time on the exit), move some weight from the engine bay to the boot (battery relocation for example), and don't experiment on the limits of traction as a new driver, in a new car, on a public road...

Go thrash it about on a track day and learn how your car reacts when you push it.
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Originally Posted by biddyrascal View Post
It is down to experience and to be honest i would get used to how the car drives and handles as it is before modifying to make it go even faster, you will end up going home on a recovery truck.
. . . or in an ambulance.
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get 4 tyres of the same brand and model to start with.

then, check which arbs are fitted. I'm thinking you might have a GTA arb at the back, but standard at the front.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biddyrascal View Post
Sounds like your trying to drive the car hard, when a car is on the limit of over or under steer the slightest change in throttle or steering will cause major unbalance that usually results in over correction then you've got real battle on your hands.
You cant take a car to its limits unless you are familiar with its characteristics when it approaches the limit.
It is down to experience and to be honest i would get used to how the car drives and handles as it is before modifying to make it go even faster, you will end up going home on a recovery truck.
Should stick to learning how to handle that power for now, will definitely try to push less. What you said sounds exactly on point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
get 4 tyres of the same brand and model to start with.

then, check which arbs are fitted. I'm thinking you might have a GTA arb at the back, but standard at the front.
All the springs are same - KW , can't remember the name . I'll give a pic later, at work atm.
Tires are postponed for now, i don't have winter tires at all so they're with priority. If my arbs you mean springs. If not, what do you means?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Editor_ View Post
Stickier tires all round, slow in/fast out (don't enter a corner too fast, it'll cost you far more time on the exit), move some weight from the engine bay to the boot (battery relocation for example), and don't experiment on the limits of traction as a new driver, in a new car, on a public road...

Go thrash it about on a track day and learn how your car reacts when you push it.
With 200-300 miles on my clock i might learn to drive better before going to a track. Oh damn, i just remembered there isn't a track anywhere close...
Unfortunately the back roads are the only place to trash a car in my city. I managed to do that in the centre though, that was a mistake I confess..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tishobg View Post
All the springs are same - KW , can't remember the name . I'll give a pic later, at work atm.
Tires are postponed for now, i don't have winter tires at all so they're with priority. If my arbs you mean springs. If not, what do you means?
he means the anti-roll bar (weight transfer torsion spring).

If the rear is GTA and the front is standard that would cause lift off over steer....better GTA anti roll bar on front first...?
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he means the anti-roll bar (weight transfer torsion spring).

If the rear is GTA and the front is standard that would cause lift off over steer....better GTA anti roll bar on front first...?
How would I go about checking for it?
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These are the springs:
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How would I go about checking for it?
Measure the diameter both front and rear. Report back with the results.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tishobg View Post
All the springs are same - KW , can't remember the name . I'll give a pic later, at work atm.
Tires are postponed for now, i don't have winter tires at all so they're with priority. If my arbs you mean springs. If not, what do you means?
if you can't get matching tyres, then switch the current wheels front to back, and see if this gives more benign handling. It could, however, get worse aswell.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
if you can't get matching tyres, then switch the current wheels front to back, and see if this gives more benign handling. It could, however, get worse aswell.
Front tires are brand new, rear are at least a year old , if not more. 50-60% tread left.
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Quote:
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Measure the diameter both front and rear. Report back with the results.
Again, excuse my lack of knowledge, but the diameter of what exactly ?
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As above new tyres should go no the back, as the handling is meant to be understeer bias on fwd.
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Quote:
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Again, excuse my lack of knowledge, but the diameter of what exactly ?
the antiroll bar linking the suspension on the left of the car to the right.

http://cuberra.eu/media/catalog/prod...erra.eu-34.jpg

that's a drawing explaining what it looks like and how it works

and here's some pictures on an alfa:

back: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...g/IMGP0378.jpg

and where it's located on the front subframe: http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0027_large.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autocad View Post
As above new tyres should go no the back, as the handling is meant to be understeer bias on fwd.
This.

You've got worn tyres on the rear and grippy ones on the front. So naturally the rear will have less grip than the front, which makes oversteer more likely.

Swap the tyres front to rear and you may find it less oversteery
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As we are talking about tyres, I would whole heartedly suggest you try Michelin Pilot Sport 4. I also love to push my car around corners on free back roads and find them to be incredibly grippy. Im yet to manage to spin them or over/under steer (maybe Im not pushing hard enough ). The size I use is 225/40/17 both front and back. I have heard some people use 215 in the front, but am unsure of what would this lead to. Anyway, great tyres (a bit expensive tho) - check them out.
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GoodYear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 or 3.

And yes, always put the best (most grippy) tyres at the back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xen0s View Post
As we are talking about tyres, I would whole heartedly suggest you try Michelin Pilot Sport 4. I also love to push my car around corners on free back roads and find them to be incredibly grippy. Im yet to manage to spin them or over/under steer (maybe Im not pushing hard enough ). The size I use is 225/40/17 both front and back. I have heard some people use 215 in the front, but am unsure of what would this lead to. Anyway, great tyres (a bit expensive tho) - check them out.
Fellow Bulgarian, great . I'm from Varna
SO much stuff I have to work on the car right now, I'll just cope with my current tire situation.
Guess I'll switch the tires front--> back and see if it helps. Felt my rear go loose quite a lot on some back roads hooning.
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Swapping tyres around is free, so worth trying.
However, Nexen on the back and Michelin on the front may well result in a loose rear too...

It will never be properly balanced with a mixed set.
As for size: 225/45R17 91Y all round.
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225 tyres all round must give phenomenal levels of grip on a small 147 sized car?
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