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selespeed problem, pump continious, with clunking noises

4K views 5 replies 3 participants last post by  johnnyonform 
#1 ·
Hi,

I've tried to read up on this as much as I can but can't seem to find the problem listed on here that I'm having. The car will start up fine. But as soon as you put the key in the selespeed gearbox bit comes flashing up, thinking about it that's before you've turned the engine on. Selects 1st and reverse ok. But after a few minutes there is a horrible noise coming from the box. It won't move anywhere but shudders and if you try and go forward the engine seems as if your releasing a clutch with the brakes on full.

This will happen until the engine stalls. The pump primes up. But the pump when the fault happens runs continiously. Is this right? The clunking noises seem to be coming from the top solenoids.

Although the pump is running all the time if you hold the hose from the reservoir you can almost feel it pulsate with the clunks. If you disconnect any of the solenoids the pump carries on pumping but it changes its tone and slows down as if pressure has been reached or its over pressurisng and its struggleing.

Brand new battery, no leaks or any sign of oil anywhere on the box. I took out the little filter and it had tiny bits of metal in it which I cleaned all out. But no difference.

What should I try next? Can you take off the big ball thing? Which I belive to be the actuator? And if so what am I likely to find in there?

Any ideas?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Hello and welcome :)

Interesting symptoms. The not-being-able-to-move part with clutch engaging and feeling as though the brakes are on, and engine stalling, sounds as though there are two gears selected at once. I wonder if the finger bolt has worked loose - the one that connects the actuator to the gear selectors. By removing the whole actuator from the gearbox and refitting, you could potentially correct this problem. But it would be nice to have a little more supporting information first.

The pump running all the time is perhaps because it's trying to select gears all the time. What exactly happens if you switch on the ignition without the engine running, and then use the lever to select each gear in turn? Does the LCD show each gear number in turn and does the Selespeed make the appropriate brief noises? Or is the LCD stuck on one gear?

Of course, it would help to use Alfadiag (www.alfadiag.net) software which costs 60 Euro, and a KKL-type OBD cable from eBay, about 10 pounds, as we are always suggesting on this forum. FiatECUScan is another option, and free. Then you can see whether the system pressure is within acceptable limits (apparently the pressure reading is wrong in FiatECUScan, but you should still be able to see whether it is fairly constant). You can try an EOL calibration, which is where the system calibrates its gearchange position sensors according to where the actuators place the selectors. There is even a routine that diagnoses the loosening of the finger screw!

The accumulator (the big black sphere) could be faulty - in that case the pump would only run for a couple of seconds when you open the driver's door. How long does yours run for when you open the driver's door after the car has been sitting untouched for a few hours? The accumulator is a gas-charged sphere that the pump pressurises fluid against, a bit like an old Hydragas displacer unit in Allegro suspension, if that rings any bells with you :lol: If the gas is lost, the pump builds up pressure immediately, but there is then no reserve of pressure to operate the actuators properly, so the pump has to run again while the actuators are operating. The accumulator is available as a FIAT replacement part for the Stilo Abarth/Prestigio models with Selespeed - do a search on this forum. But you definitely don't want to go down this path until you have connected the car to diagnosis software, to work out whether the system pressure is continuous and correct.

-Alex
 
#3 ·
The pump running constantly can be either a stuck relay, loss of pressure (eg accumulator) or a faulty pressure sensor.

Even if the finger bolt was loose, I don't think it could engage two gears at once. It might be the selector shaft itself though. I looked at one a few months back, that was engaging 5th instead of 1st. The guy sent me a video of it once he'd taken the actuator off.

Worst case scenario is get it recovered to Smaky and he'll fix it! :thumbs:
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the responses. This is from memory so maybe a little off. The car as soon as you turn on the ignition the warning light flashes. I'm not sure if you can select gears (ill check Monday) but it seems to work fine for a few seconds when started (not sure if I had the door open or closed while I was trying this. I've read the entire 23 pages of selespeed threads so pretty clued up on bits and bobs to an extent

I don't have alfa diag but I do have a snap on ethos. Which read a fault of sticking relay. Which I swapped to no avail, and pressure switch.

I know it was at 45 bar when I started the test but forgot to check when the problem started.

Another fault was pressure switch. Which when I cleared the fault that didn't come back but the relay did. Tried 4 different relays but no change. It does sound like its trying to select 2 gears at once. I cleaned out the tiny filter behind the pressure side of the pipe. with the risk of sounding stupid.... the actuator is the shphere thing on the top? Or is that the accumulator. Or are they one of the same?
 
#5 · (Edited)
Another fault was pressure switch. Which when I cleared the fault that didn't come back but the relay did. Tried 4 different relays but no change.
That sounds like useful information. Why is there still a relay fault... must be a wiring or connector problem? And if that relay fault is making the pump run all the time - surely the pressure is too high, perhaps that is causing all the problems with the gear selection (it would normally just return to neutral, but perhaps the pressure sender was considered 'faulty' as you said, and ignored). Maybe the reason that everything works normally for a few seconds is because that's how long it takes for the pressure to exceed normal values?

Personally I suspect that the relay isn't stuck and the pump is not running all the time, because you say in your original post "But the pump when the fault happens runs continiously". I'm guessing, therefore, that the pump behaves normally until the fault occurs.

Just to clarify the question I asked before, if you open the driver's door without putting the key in the ignition and without starting the engine, the pump should run for a number of seconds, and then stop. Does that happen - does it stop, and after how long?

I think you really have to keep trying until that fault code 'sticking relay' is gone. Check wiring and connections...

with the risk of sounding stupid.... the actuator is the shphere thing on the top? Or is that the accumulator. Or are they one of the same?
No, Yes, Yes. ;) The accumulator is the sphere, as I said before. The actuator is the whole device fastened to the top of the gearbox - electrovalves, hydraulic valves, position sensors - and the accumulator.



-Alex
 
#6 ·
Thanks Alex,

Don't think I was questioning your knowledge on the actuator\accumulator I just wanted to clarify it in my own mind. With regards to the pump priming when the door is open I'm not to sure. I can remember that it would click and prime up but I didn't know this was door related. And I've had the door open\shut bonnet up\ down without paying attention to those variables as I didnty realise they were important.

Ill update on those later when I'm next at my garage.

Which one is the pressure switch? Is it located at the front of the box? (Headlight side not driver or passenger side if that makes sense)

And a thing I noticed when this happens if you feel the pipes when the box goes crazy they seem to sudder as if its pumping, then not but erratically not ever second, and it ties in with the cluncks.

And finally if I read the pressure on the box when this happens and it comes up as high pressure then fault code for the pressure switch should I assume the switch is dead or it really is too high and the switch is reading the correct pressure?

Phew so many questions
 
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