147 takes a while to start

[garethh]

Hi all,
I've had a niggling problem over the last few weeks in that my 147 turns over and doesn't start, then on the second, and sometimes third attempt, starts perfectly. This occurs when the engine is cold - I mention this as when I've searched for similar problems, others usually state that they have this problem when the engine is hot. Suggested remedy in these cases is usually to replace the crankshaft sensor; could I have the same problem?

Any suggestions and advice much appreciated. 'Tis my first post but should mention that I've found the site extremely useful over the past year or so. Probably would have sold the car without the advice of you helpful souls out there.

Many thanks

[iainfm]

Any issues once it's running? Cutting out or spluttering?

My fist thought is the coolant temperature sensor...

[garethh]

No problems once running. It did completely cut out once a few months ago, but that was apparently due to a bad earth somewhere - hasn't happened since that was fixed.

The engine management light does glow faintly after a failed attempt to start. It goes off once started.

Thanks

[Daigo]

is your 147 a selespeed?

[Preditor]

I had a similar problem a few weeks ago on my 147. It got to the point where it could take me 10 attempts before it finally started. I recommend getting the air flow meter checked, that was the problem on my car.

[jaybeerex]

brake sensor perhaps not detecting ur foot on it and starting the engine?

[Daigo]

if its a selespeed
is just a relay

i have a 156
on my 156 i don' know on a 147
in front of the batery theres two relay, one for the selespeed(i don't remeber which)

i have the same problem

try this
put the key, open the switch then count 7
and then start the engine(must work, if start, is just that relay)

[garethh]

Yes, it's a Selespeed (2001).

Interesting that you mention the brake sensor jaybeerex as on one occasion after starting, the moment that I pressed the brake pedal to change into first gear, the engine cut out.

When it does start, it has often been starting without the brake pedal pressed (only when in neutral of course). I'm pretty sure that I always used to have to depress the brake pedal to start before, even if in neutral. Maybe someone can confirm that's generally the case?

Thanks for all ideas so far.

[jaybeerex]

i have to have the brake pedal pressed everytime to start my 147 sillyspeed

[garethh]

When I insert the key and turn to the first position, the checks run fully, then all the displays go off and I have to start again. If I try to start the car while the checks are still ongoing the same thing happens. This also happens if I touch the brake pedal before the checks have finished ie all displays go off - I then have to start the process again. After a few goes, the car then attempts to start but doesn't fire first time. It generally starts with no further errors or problems on the second or third attempt - brake pedal depressed or not.

The sequence of events is never quite the same and on occasion, the car starts normally, but that's a rare event. I guess that the fact I don't always have to press the brake is an indication of something being broken, but maybe it's a combination of problems?

Whatever further advice or comments you have I'd be most grateful. I'll be taking it in next week and it'll hopefully save a bit of expense if i can point the mechanic in the right direction.

Many thanks

[jaybeerex]

With mine i can literally hop in the car press the brake and turn the key all the way, it will sit there for a few seconds while it finishes running checks then fires everytime.

[garethh]

Yes, that's what mine used to do. What I don't quite understand is that once the engine has been running, even for only 30 seconds or so, if I then turn it off, remove the key and then try to restart I have no problems at all.

[Daigo]

Originally Posted by jaybeerex

i have to have the brake pedal pressed everytime to start my 147 sillyspeed

it supposed to switch off the car on 1st
the only way you don't need to press the brake pedal to start the engine is when the car is neutral
if the car is on 1st or Reverse you need to press the brake pedal to start it

[twig]

How old is the battery, it might be worth replacing it as you can get funny problems with the electrics if it is not holding it's charge properly.I change the battery of my 52 plate 147 this year and all of a sudden all these intermittant abs,vdc and asr errors have gone.

[garethh]

I'll probably give that a try. Have read before that it can solve various errors etc. We'll see how things are after that. Thanks

[SEARs]

as others have said turn the key to MAR, [ eg: then fasten the safety belt ] give all the ecus a change to 'do their thing', pres the brake pedal & turn the key.... it does take longer until you can turn the key to the start position than a manual

[garethh]

The thing is, I've owned the car for over a year and had no problems starting it until recently. I do appreciate that the Selespeed takes a bit longer to get itself ready. The pump runs for maybe 10 seconds when I open the door.

I just went out and followed exactly what you've described SEARs (it's the procedure I usually follow when starting the car anyhow) and when the "check active" message went off, all visual displays went off and the internal fan stopped. I then removed the key and started again, same thing happened. I then tried again and the car started - at no point did i press the brake pedal - although I did leave it in neutral. I just don't get it.

Yesterday, I got in and didn't wait for the checks to complete and the car started straight away. As I mentioned before, what often happens is that after the checks have finished, I press the brake and all power goes off. Pressing the brake definitely causes the power to go off, but it also goes off if I leave the brake alone.

It's baffling, but appears to be an electrical type problem, so maybe if I get a new battery it'll disappear. Don't really need that extra expense but once it's done at least that can be ruled out I guess.

Cheers for the advice so far; any more is very welcome!

[Bigdog73]

With the engine running if you engage reverse does it also stop, same problem with my 147 a couple of months ago and I finally diagnosed it to the connection block on the back of the ignition switch. £40 and two hours later problem solved.

[garethh]

no, that hasn't happened on mine.......not yet anyway.

thanks for the info though.

[garethh]

Just an update - had the battery checked at the weekend and it's fine. On the way the car decided to stop out of the blue - whilst slowing down when approaching a junction it appeared to try to change down to 2nd and missed, and then stalled. Full of surprises this one. Really getting value for my money.

[biffa]

Had Battery checked? Did you drive to the place that checked the battery? If so you've charged the battery going there it might be that when you leave the car the charge drops and gives you starting issues...

I know from my (non sillyspeed) experience that a battery can give you alsorts of curve balls...

[garethh]

yes, good point, although I thought they checked to see if it held it's charge too. I did turn up expecting to get a new one fitted, but as they said it was fine.......maybe I should just change it regardless of that.

[twig]

Originally Posted by garethh

yes, good point, although I thought they checked to see if it held it's charge too. I did turn up expecting to get a new one fitted, but as they said it was fine.......maybe I should just change it regardless of that.

Kwik Fit told me my battery was fine when they tested it, but I told them to change it anyway because I'd had so many little faults and also low battery charge warnings, going flat when installing new radio etc, now got new battery and no intermittant errors.
The thing with any type of rechargeable battery is as they get older they do not hold as much charge for as long as they used to. Also When I fitted new battery I went for one that could take a bigger load as the original battery was only just enough to cover demand.

[garethh]

I'm getting a new one tomorrrow. see how things are after that. cheers

[garethh]

Ok, new battery fitted but I still get the blank display after it initially lights up. It does all the checks then all power goes off. It has been starting on the first turn of the key now though (when I can get to that point). So, it appears that the new battery has resolved the problem actually starting, but there is still an electrical fault as described before.

It can take up to a minute or so of repeated attempts to get the thing started. I have to remove the key and start the whole process again each time. But, more worryingly..............

This morning after travelling about 100 yards, all electrical power went off and I cruised to a standstill (that has happened once before a few months ago). First thing I noticed was the radio going off then clearly nothing else was working either. Took the key out and restarted with no further problems on the 10 mile journey that followed. If that happened when approaching a tight bend, I'd suddenly have no power steering. I imagine it would also make life exciting if I was on a motorway.

Has anyone heard of this happening before? The two times it's occurred have been within a few minutes of starting. With a heavy heart and rapidly reducing limit on the credit card I am now seriously considering part-ex'ing for something more reliable.