Alfa 156 or BMW-E46

kgb · 08-04-2003

Hi there,
I am looking to buy a second hand Alfa 156 or BMW-E46...the models that I am thinking about are:320d or 1.9Jtd (2.4jtd)
and:320i or 2.0twin spark
What will you suggest and what can I buy for about 10 000-15 000evro.

Banflu · 08-04-2003

well it depends on what you want/need

if it's fuel economy, get a 156 1.9JTD
if it's fuel economy AND performance, get the 2.4JTD

if it's sheer pleasure, not-bad performance, SOUND, REVS, etc, get the 2.0T. Spark

if you want a car where you NEVER intend to pop the hood/take to the dealer/give you an inch of fun, get a BM wink

VeloceMitch · 08-04-2003

Hi kgb (You a spy or something?)
My opinion on 156 v 3 series (E46?)
Performance.
The 156 is faster either as diesal or petrol. But this could depend on which engine the 320i has. Is it the 1.8, or the 2.3, the numbers dont always make sense. I drove a new model 318i, which bizzarly has a 2.0 engine. It was very smooth but not as fast as the 2.0TS 156.
Handling.
Being RWD the beemer is probably ultimatly better, but the Alfa feels more edgy and is more fun. Unless you can go for the more powerfull 3 series like the 330 IMO it feels too bland.
Ride.
BMW definatly better here.
Quality and reliabilty
Has to the BM again in theory, but to be honest my Alfas have been fine, and my Bosses 330i has been a dog, so you never can tell!.
Style.
Got to be the 156, still the best looking car on the road.
Costs.
Dont know what its like in Canada, but over here the Alfa is cheaper to buy, especialy with the discounts, but doesnt hold its value as well.
The same will apply to a new one, you will pay less but get less back when you sell it.
What the all the above doesnt cover is the likely affect of buying an Alfa, once you've bought one you will almost certainly want to buy another!
GO FOR IT

Ivo · 08-04-2003

330d eek!

logiclee · 08-04-2003

Don't know about Canada but UK 320's were 150bhp 2litre 6 cylinder in lines up until about a year ago then they were increased to 170bhp 2.2litre 6 cylinder in lines.

Very early 325's (Pre 323) were 170bhp 6's.
The 323 was a 170bhp 2.5 6cylinder in-line up until a year ago when the engine received double vanos and a few other tweeks to give it 190bhp. These cars were rebadged as 325's

The 316 and 318 engines have just about changed every year so you will need to check every car you look at. They have been 1.6 and 1.8, both units 1.9 but different hp, 2.0 litres and currently the 318 is a 1.8 again with trick valve gear and no throttle.

On the Diesels the latest 320d (150hp) is one of the best deisels on sale but is very expensive in the UK the early 318TD's (90hp)were crap.
Only driven the 2.4JTD and performance and noise are astounding but fuel economy is not in the same league as the BMW

Its hard to say which to go for without knowing the Canadian market. In the UK a year old 156 2.0TS Veloce would sell for around the same price as a 3 year old 320. There is no question the 320 is better built but the 3 series is the best selling medium car in Europe making them very common. They are nice to drive but edging on the numb side of involving.
The Alfa is not as well built and does feel a little fragile in comparison but is a lot more involving to drive. It will depend on the state of your roads and if they are available but Alfa offered a sportpark or Veloce spec on the 156 which included lower and stiffer suspension, its worth considering if you enjoy a pushing the car.
2.0TS were 155bhp dropping to 150bhp in the last year or so to comply with Euro4 emmissions. The cat was moved to the exhaust manifold which strangles top end power a bit.
The 2.4 JTD was 140bhp but has recently been revamped to 150bhp.

09-04-2003

BMW 3 series ? eek!

This is the car that makes BMW its money, it is small, sells in vast numbers and is ridiculously expensive when new

. (At least is in Thailand)

The Alfa 156 is the complete antithesis of the 3 series and competes by being different. It has lines, it has a swoopy dash, the rear doors were bold when it first came out, it is cheaper

. The acceleration from a 2.0TS is slightly better than a 318 2.0 and it sounds better as well.

A small BMW is still a small BMW, no matter which bells and whistles you fork out for and is nowhere near the same league as the 5 or 7 series in design. Buy a second hand 528 SE if you want a pukka BMW or even a 735, if BMW top line image is what rings your bell.

kgb · 09-04-2003

First THANKS FOR THE INFO...

Second...Sorry...I am a student in Canada (Montreal) but I will be going back to Europe in July. So I will buying the car in Europe!!! (Germany,Italy,Netherlands or Spain...I don't really know for now) you can also give me an advise on that??!! and I will be driving the car in Europe (mostly Bulgaria, where the roads are not that good in general, but around where I live and drive they are brand new).

In Montreal I have seen only one 156...and people look at it as it is from another planet eek!

one question about the fuel economy for 2.4jtd and 1.9jtd??? how many mpg it is really...because in the magazines it is between 5-12lt. for 100km frown

jomor · 09-04-2003

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kgb:

In Montreal I have seen only one 156...and people look at it as it is from another planet eek!
<hr /></blockquote>LOL

I can imagine them staring at a GTA

http://www.buickriviera.co.uk/images/71_skylark.jpg

http://www.auto1.hu/autoszalon/images/frank_alfa_01.jpg

Pexi · 09-04-2003

Hey, what an earth is BMW E46... or is it something that all civiliced and educated people should know? Anyway, I don't know, so help me poor ignorant!!
Wild quess... BMW 3 series car produced between I and II World War in eastern germany?

LaTiNo · 09-04-2003

KGB: new prices in the Netherlands are higher than in Germany, Belgium and Italy. If you are going to import the car to Bulgaria you might not need to pay the high taxes in the Netherlands. In the Netherlands the PRE-TAX price of new cars is LOWER than in the other countries, except Denmark which is the cheapest (and also has the HIGHEST POST-TAX prices!).
If you are going to buy secondhand prices in Holland may be higher too as the new-price is higher.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kgb:
First THANKS FOR THE INFO...

Second...Sorry...I am a student in Canada (Montreal) but I will be going back to Europe in July. So I will buying the car in Europe!!! (Germany,Italy,Netherlands or Spain...I don't really know for now) you can also give me an advise on that??!! and I will be driving the car in Europe (mostly Bulgaria, where the roads are not that good in general, but around where I live and drive they are brand new).

In Montreal I have seen only one 156...and people look at it as it is from another planet eek!

one question about the fuel economy for 2.4jtd and 1.9jtd??? how many mpg it is really...because in the magazines it is between 5-12lt. for 100km

Stori · 09-04-2003

Personally I currently have a big thing about BMW's.
Especially as a woman of Indian descent attempted to reverse park into a empty car spot next to mine. via my car eek!

.
Thank goodness I was in the 147 whilst waiting to collect my daughter from school, an was able to reverse the car back onto the lawn to get out of her way

When I suggested that it would be best to drive up further before reversing in a parking spot her comment was " I did not want to do that" eek!

Every year, at my daughter's private school, the number of BMW's and Mercedes and also 4 wheel drives of various makes increases.
I have the only Alfa Romeo and it stands out like the proverbial Dog's testacles in a sea of dross

http://members.optushome.com.au/stor...o/147front.jpg

Banflu · 09-04-2003

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Pexi:
Hey, what an earth is BMW E46... or is it something that all civiliced and educated people should know? Anyway, I don't know, so help me poor ignorant!!
Wild quess... BMW 3 series car produced between I and II World War in eastern germany?

<hr /></blockquote>the E46 is indeed a 3 series, it's the last model 3 series as far as i know. the one before it was the E36 if i'm not mistaken.

kgb · 10-04-2003

yep the E46 is the 3-series from 1998 to 2005

THROTTLEMAN · 10-04-2003

And I thought E46 was some kind of additive they have on food

wink

kgb · 10-04-2003

For now I think that I will go for the 156 2.4JTD eek! ...any suggestions on what I should look for in the car....since I will be buying a used one.

10-04-2003

Here is good text, from this site:
On the left menu: Miscellaneus -> Trading Advice

http://www.alfaowner.com/alfaowner/m...us/trading.htm

...and this is from the http://www.alfa156.net site Left menu: Tips -> Buyer's guides:

Check that Air Con is working

Look for corrosion over windscreen and on roof

Listen for clunks from front ball joints

Cam variator rattles from Twin Sparks (read more here http://www.alfa156.net )

Check for flaky paint on front bumper (read more herehttp://www.alfa156.net )

Make sure rear brakes haven't seized/corroded

Check if all interior/dashboard lighting is still working

Check engine under tray isn't smashed - it'll ground out otherwise.

Check suspension for creaks over bumps (read more here http://www.alfa156.net )

Check alarm arms properly

Check for oil leaks (it stungs a fortune for leaky balancer shaft seals)

Run air con on coldest setting whilst you test drive it then feel round
the spongy gasket on the plastic housing in the middle of the bulkhead to see if it gets wet.

Test drive it in the wet and go through every puddle you can find - then check
the carpets for water. (read more here http://www.alfa156.net )

If you're buying from a dealer dont take the warranty if its a WHA warranty (they're 5hite)

Check edge of drivers seat for wear on the piping.

Check when the cam belt was last changed! (read more here http://www.alfa156.net )

kgb · 10-04-2003

THANKS A LOT...... wink

by the end I will probably know more about the 156 then the engineers themselves eek!