Cam lock tool help.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

I promise you that yours will be the same. You need to ignore any marks on the sprockets. The only mark you need is the one on the lower pulley. Part of the reason you need to lock the cams is because the marks on the sprockets don't relate to anything.

The car in the pic was a 145 Cloverleaf BTW, so basically the same engine as yours.

I have done 2 other cars using the same method and all of them were ok after.

Ah bugger I'm off for a beer and then it's back to the drawing board

I put it all back as I thought it was lined, I started it and it sounded tappety, I thought it would go after engine got up to temp as It hasn't been started in a while, but It's still sounds tappety! So It's back to the drawing board again me thinks and take it all off and start again

I gave it another go and I dont have tappet noise this time , but it's down in power because before when I hit arround 2900 rpm the power would kick in until 3900 then dip until 5000 rpm then kick back in until 7000 rpm.

I think I'm gonna have to invest in a dti guage because I cant seem to get it right

Symon is right !

Originally Posted by rarebear

Symon is right !

Thanks Rarebear, I was banging my head on this one.
Its a pretty easy job to do but so much more difficult to describe.

Originally Posted by sa155ae

I gave it another go and I dont have tappet noise this time , but it's down in power because before when I hit arround 2900 rpm the power would kick in until 3900 then dip until 5000 rpm then kick back in until 7000 rpm.

I think I'm gonna have to invest in a dti guage because I cant seem to get it right

Did you fit the cam locks in place of the correct bearing caps? As if you fit them as you show in your picture you are likely to end up with pistons and valves colliding.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

Did you fit the cam locks in place of the correct bearing caps? As if you fit them as you show in your picture you are likely to end up with pistons and valves colliding.

Bugger thats probably what that tappety noise was the first time I did it Looks like a head off job now I have a spare head luckily! I just hope the pistons are intact.

If you changed the variator its normal for it to rattle slightly for a few seconds until it fills with oil. If the engine still runs you may have got away with it.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

If you changed the variator its normal for it to rattle slightly for a few seconds until it fills with oil. If the engine still runs you may have got away with it.

Well ye it runs, but when on idle its lumpy, and there seems to be less power when going through the gears, so I guess a valve or 2 may have bent!

By the way I didnt change the variator this time as it seemed ok, before I changed the belts I mean.


On the variator note I heard someone say you can change it on the car using cam lock tool nearest the variator and variator removal tool!

These are the camlocks for the JTS:
A means aspirazione (inlet)
S means Scarico (exhaust)
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2748/img0203mz4.jpg This is the manufacturer of the originakl AR cam tools
See also:
http://www.usag.it/documenti/istr15_...ase_1320-1.pdf
I guess yours is the 1320 M

Originally Posted by sa155ae

On the variator note I heard someone say you can change it on the car using cam lock tool nearest the variator and variator removal tool!

Whoever said that should not be let near your car. If you do that you will probably wreck the head. You need to remove the cam, and hold it in a vice between 2 soft bits of wood whilst you unscrew the variator. It is very tight, and if you try and hold the cams with the locks the threads will probably rip out where the blocks are bolted on.

Its possible that your cam timing is just a bit out if your car does run but badly.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

Whoever said that should not be let near your car. If you do that you will probably wreck the head. You need to remove the cam, and hold it in a vice between 2 soft bits of wood whilst you unscrew the variator. It is very tight, and if you try and hold the cams with the locks the threads will probably rip out where the blocks are bolted on.

Its possible that your cam timing is just a bit out if your car does run but badly.

I was hoping that would be the case.

I was thinking how would be the best way to diagnose, and I have OBD 2 cable and laptop, but I just need Alfadiag now downloaded, so would that be a better way to go?
I mean can I diagnose what the problem is say without getting a compression tester!

Oh by the way I did take the cam out the last time I changed the variator. I'm in two minds now whether to change this one, as it seems really quiet at the mo and it's only on 43k now

Originally Posted by sa155ae

I was hoping that would be the case.

I was thinking how would be the best way to diagnose, and I have OBD 2 cable and laptop, but I just need Alfadiag now downloaded, so would that be a better way to go?
I mean can I diagnose what the problem is say without getting a compression tester!

Unless the fault has illuminated the injector warning light the ECU won't have recorded the fault. As for the variator I would change it at every belt change, and many other people agree, as if it fails afterwards you either have to change the belt and tensioners again or drive on until the next belt change is due with a noisy variator and reduced performance.

Are you 100% sure you have the cam timing correct as I wouldn't mind betting that its your only problem, unless there is something electrical you have disturbed.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

Unless the fault has illuminated the injector warning light the ECU won't have recorded the fault. As for the variator I would change it at every belt change, and many other people agree, as if it fails afterwards you either have to change the belt and tensioners again or drive on until the next belt change is due with a noisy variator and reduced performance.

Are you 100% sure you have the cam timing correct as I wouldn't mind betting that its your only problem, unless there is something electrical you have disturbed.

I dont think im 100% right with cam timing, but a dti guage may have give me peace of mind that it's spot on TDC.

I may give it another go trying to get it the cam timing right as it maybe just that.

Originally Posted by sa155ae

I dont think im 100% right with cam timing, but a dti guage may have give me peace of mind that it's spot on TDC.

I may give it another go trying to get it the cam timing right as it maybe just that.

The easiest way to check it is to set the engine at TDC on cylinder number 1, remove number 3 bearing caps on both cams and check that the blocks fit on. If they don't because the cams don't line up then the timing is wrong.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

The easiest way to check it is to set the engine at TDC on cylinder number 1, remove number 3 bearing caps on both cams and check that the blocks fit on. If they don't because the cams don't line up then the timing is wrong.

I'm thinking now of taking my other inlet cam out as it has a 1 year old variator (off my spare car) thats if the cam aint worn!

I think the timing was out, so I tried again today. There was something that I didnt do the last time and thats set the tensioner to max with a 8 mm pin in the hole I done it today with a 8 mm drill in the hole and set the tension to max, then tightend cam wheels and turned it through 2 times and released tensioner to other hole.

I got it all back on ok and timing seemed ok as I checked with cam locks but it still seems less power at certain revs and it feels as if the tesioner is to tight! The compression seems ok as I checked with my spare car to compare and it seems the same

I hope I get to the bottom of this!

Iam at a loss with the way this thread is going, You are going to get a compete disaster uless you get this right, why on earth are you using a 8mm pin to fully tension, just turn the tensioner as far as it goes and tighten, then two turns.
Sorry to butt in , but perhaps it might be an idea to get someone local to show you the ropes , it might save you lots of money and then you will know a next time. If I was near I would show you , no trouble , is anyone close to help?

Originally Posted by ALFAPAT

Iam at a loss with the way this thread is going, You are going to get a compete disaster uless you get this right, why on earth are you using a 8mm pin to fully tension, just turn the tensioner as far as it goes and tighten, then two turns.
Sorry to butt in , but perhaps it might be an idea to get someone local to show you the ropes , it might save you lots of money and then you will know a next time. If I was near I would show you , no trouble , is anyone close to help?

When you set the cam belt tensioner there is a hole for a 8 mm pin to set the tension! Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats the way I did it on my other Allfa & that tuned out ok.

I hope to get it right in the end as I have a whole spare car to get the parts off

The 8mm hole is there for the cambelt tension tool to fit into, not a 8mm pin.

The tool is fitted in the hole, and turned until the tension is correct (indicated by the pointer lining up with the hole in the tensioner backing plate) and the nut in the middle of the tensioner is done up.

You can do it without the correct tool, but its not very easy and you are likely to do damage to either the belt or one of the tensioners.