Engine cuts out at 80mph on M25...AAAHHH!!!

Originally Posted by badgers_nadgers

If the engine is replaced, I would have thought he should keep the car.

He said it was bought on a loan, he can't afford the repair etc.. In that position, I would fix the car as it is worth precisely zero with a broken engine. But then with all the debt plus the cost of repair, the only way you can get any money back is by selling the car, clearing as much of the debt as possible and then start again with a banger. Using credit to buy a car like an Alfa without any savings to pay for possible costly failures is not wise IMO.

I get your point about 7 months not being a reasonable time, but I believe it would be up to the claimant to prove the engine failed due to is not being rebuilt correctly, rather than subsequent oil starvation or driver misuse, which would involve engineer's reports etc, and would quickly become very costly unless the dealer/engine-builder immediately rolled over and accepted the blame, which isn't the usual case.

That's why I suggested the OP getting it fixed and cutting his losses.

Ah, I see what you mean.

Originally Posted by livewire_82

Perhaps also worth checking to see if they're registered with the trade association?

Waste of time IMHO. Trade associations are much more likely to back the dealer, or even if they agree with the customer they have little or no teeth.

I don't agree with the view that 7 months is too long for an implied warranty, 12 months is probably as far as you can go, but this car wasn't a £500 banger.

If the engine was fitted less than 12 months ago then it should be covered under said warranty.

Lifewire, maybe a silly question, but did you check the oil level ? how much oil was in the sump after the incident ? I have seen a number of TS's with the same problem and they had no oil to mention in the sump (dipstick did not even get to the oil).

Originally Posted by SPPalfa

If the engine was fitted less than 12 months ago then it should be covered under said warranty.

But how do you prove failure wasn't down to user error if the garage dispute it?

As I said in an earlier post, the same thing happened to a friend's 156. He does his own maintenance and always checks oil etc. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the car before the piston melted.

Even the symptoms that Livewire explained were identical.

My friend replaced the piston and the head gasket, put it back together and it's fine.

Can't explain what happened though.

Originally Posted by rarebear

Lifewire, maybe a silly question, but did you check the oil level ? how much oil was in the sump after the incident ? I have seen a number of TS's with the same problem and they had no oil to mention in the sump (dipstick did not even get to the oil).

I'm 100% sure there was plenty of oil left in the sump.
But here's the thing..... in 7 months (or just over 2,000 miles) Imust have put in about 6 litres of oil. Now I know Alfa's do like a bit of oil, but surely that's a little on the ridiculous side?
I've also been getting the oil pressure warning up on the screen from time to time. So something hasn't felt quite right for a while. But I never anticipated it coming to this as I always ensured everything is how it should be.

Originally Posted by livewire_82

I've also been getting the oil pressure warning up on the screen from time to time.

Did you get this checked out? Could've been signs that the oil pump was failing.. 6 litres in 2,000 miles is quite excessive.

Originally Posted by livewire_82

.... in 7 months (or just over 2,000 miles) I must have put in about 6 litres of oil.

6L of oil in 2000miles is not right at all.

The absolute max is 1L in 625miles (1000km), which would equal 3.2L in 2000miles.

So your oil consumption was exceptionally high and should have been investigated.

Originally Posted by David C

6L of oil in 2000miles is not right at all.

The absolute max is 1L in 625miles (1000km), which would equal 3.2L in 2000miles.

So your oil consumption was exceptionally high and should have been investigated.

But if the oil never ran empty and I looked after the car as much as I could while I had it, how would it lead to holed piston? I kept mentioning to the independent garage that I use that it was getting through A LOT of oil but they just said "Yeah, those Alfa's do use more oil than your standard road car" and being that this is my first AR, I didnt think too much more of it.

Originally Posted by livewire_82

But if the oil never ran empty and I looked after the car as much as I could while I had it, how would it lead to holed piston? I kept mentioning to the independent garage that I use that it was getting through A LOT of oil but they just said "Yeah, those Alfa's do use more oil than your standard road car" and being that this is my first AR, I didnt think too much more of it.

If the oil was being burnt prior to it being sprayed onto the base of the piston then that would mean that piston was overheating. If you think of it like a hose with a little hole in, you still get a good spray at the end. But too many holes, and no matter how hard the taps turned on, not enough comes out..

Originally Posted by Pud237

If the oil was being burnt prior to it being sprayed onto the base of the piston then that would mean that piston was overheating. If you think of it like a hose with a little hole in, you still get a good spray at the end. But too many holes, and no matter how hard the taps turned on, not enough comes out..

Agreed. But would that have any direct connection to the fact I've been using SO much oil?

Originally Posted by livewire_82

Agreed. But would that have any direct connection to the fact I've been using SO much oil?

Not sure why the engine would be using a lot of oil.. Lots of reasons really. But if the engine is burning too much of the oil before it gets to where it needs to go, then you will have suffered from localised oil starvation, which has caused the piston to get too hot and melt.

Your problem is proving anything. You didn't make it clear from your original post, who are you trying to get some cash out of, the garage that rebuilt the engine, or the garage that sold you the car?

Not sure what your car is worth, however I've recently replaced the engine in my 156 sele and that came in at 550ish, 450 for replacement engine with 60k on it, used my original clutch and gearbox and took a couple of weekends. Picked the engine up from ebay, and they were local with an examiner which was handy, for 450 with 100 quid for odds and sods. Wish I knew it was that easy, and cheap, to get get a new block before I had just spent 500 quid on a new top end I've seen someone on fleabay offering recons fitted for 1250 if you can't do it yourself but no idea who they are. Anyway, new engine not the end of the world Let us know how you get on

You can hole a piston quite easily through having an air leak at the inlet manifold, causing the cylinder to run weak.

Thirty years ago, my 3.8 Jaguar did precisely this at the rearmost cylinder at moderate motorway steady cruising speed two hours after I got it back from the garage after a top end overhaul. The rear cylinder is where the brake vacuum servo connection is made. In my case they had not put the vacuum hose connection back properly and air entering here caused the problem.

I do not think any lack of piston cooling oil flow would even remotely be accounted for by a consumption of 6 litres in 2000 miles. Sure this is really high consumption but as a proportion of the total flow it is negligible. Low oil pressure from the pump may be a possibility I suppose.

I bought the car last november for £100 shy of £6k.
It's an 03 plate, 2.0 ltr and has down just over 57,000 miles.

I'm planning on speaking to the dealer very shortly. Just going to start off explaining to him what has happened and see what his feedback is from that. Knowing that I could potentially get a recon engine for £1.5k with the added bonus off my AA warranty (hopefully) paying for £1k of the cost,, shows that I could be in many a worse situation.

I'll be getting a local garage to fit the replacement engine. Once that's done I'll look at selling it on. Based on what I bought the car for in novemeber and a recon engine of £1.5k, any ideas what that would make its market value?

Originally Posted by livewire_82

Once that's done I'll look at selling it on.

Personally, I wouldn't do that, you'd be out of pocket and without a car. Once the engine's replaced, surely the problem's solved?

Originally Posted by badgers_nadgers

Personally, I wouldn't do that, you'd be out of pocket and without a car. Once the engine's replaced, surely the problem's solved?

Depends if he can afford to keep it though, as it is bought on a personal loan.. Might be better to sell the car, pay off the loan and buy a banger..

Originally Posted by badgers_nadgers

Personally, I wouldn't do that, you'd be out of pocket and without a car. Once the engine's replaced, surely the problem's solved?

There's a couple of reasons why I think I should sell the car. One is personal involving needing funds to finance buying a flat and the other is that this car has got just too much history to suggest there could be problems lurking anywhere. If the previous driver was a wideboy who treated it like a toy, who knows what else there could be hiding around the corner. It's been into my local dealer garage so frequently, that it's become notorious - when i took it in the other week, the mechanic took one look at it and muttered "not this one again!" It's a personal issue I just have with this particular Alfa and with my current financial commitments, it's just too risky.