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164 confusion

a mate is toying with the idea of buying a 164 3.0. Can you guys advise what BHP the 3.0s had? I thought they started in 1987 with 180bhp, then the Cloverleaf had 210bhp, but he thinks the Super had 220bhp, but I thought the Super was slower that the CL? Anyway, i can't remember and then i got confused and I had to sit in a field for a bit awaiting the answer and as you're more likely to know than the cows I sat next to, could someone please help?

And, is the torque steer all that bad on the 3.0?

Oh, and the Cloverleaf - is called a Cloverleaf? I keep thinking it was called the QV (yeah i know it's the same thing but in Italiano, but what's the official designation please?)

cheers guys,

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Original 164 3.0 12V had 192bhp, cat equipped cars had 184bhp. 164 12V Cloverleaf had 200bhp all with cats

All 164 24V Supers had 210bhp, 24V Cloverleaf 230bhp.

Official title in UK was Cloverleaf, in Mainland Europe QV - quadrifoglio verde
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Rapallo, you are a gentleman. thank you very much for that. right, the search begins! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

thanks again,

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Torque steer on early 164 V6's can be quite a handful, especially on road surfaces that arent very smooth-for eg.When i first got mine i went to overtake a learner driver at 30mph who was coming up to the national speed limit.So i selected 2nd gear, pulled out and gave it full throttle.As i was going past him my car suddenly pulled to the right heading for the ditch, so i naturally turned slightly to the left-as you would-and then the car gripped and shot across the to the left and i nearly hit him.Once you get to know the car and what it can do you get used to it, but the early ones can be a bit of a handfull-i could tell you about torque steer in the wet, but i'll leave that one up to your imagination!
Also the 12v cars are supposed to be slightly quicker accelerating than the 24v cars because although the 24v has an extra 18bhp it is some 150-200 kgs heavier.The quickest 164 is the TB.It was made for the Italian market(so LHD only)and has a 2.0 V6 Turbo engine producing 210 bhp-it is also quicker than the 24v cars-even giving the 24v QV a run for it's money!
Hope this helps.
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I agree that torque steer is a problem - when I lived in Italy I drove a friends 164 TB that had been chipped to 260bhp with no traction control - that was the most uncontrollable car I've ever driven - but great fun though! Does anyone else remeber that Alfa put the Thema 16V Turbo engine in the 164 when it was launched??

I feel that the 24V cars are generally quicker than the 12V but you have to rev them more - major prob of 12V is red line at 5900 - 24V is 7000+. 12V is more reliable though.
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24v models do not torque steer much at all due to the revised suspension geometry and the lowering of the engine. If a 24v torque steers badly then the engine mounts are shot to bits.

210bph - Super/Super Lusso
230bhp - Cloverleaf.

Forget an older 12v unless ultra well maintained, the 24v look much prettier also and had lots of bugs ironed out.

Good service history is an absolute must, if you neglect these cars they will pay you back by biting you in the ass big-time. Well maintained and they are very reliable indeed.

Cloverleaf is the one to go for (24v) as you get electronic suspension and leather and other toys as standard, you can pick up a pristine example with circa 80k miles for 4-5 grand now.

'96 164 Cloverleaf

Now a Mercedes CLK 430 Coupe.
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