Please Help ASAP

[marioviljoen]

Hi all, please help my alfa 146 ti 2.0 won't start, we have checked all the fuses bbob, under the dashboard as well as in front, still no go!! Please help

[marioviljoen]

can anyone please help me?

[langers]

Will the car's start motor turn the engine over?

Are there any warning lights on the dash?

Is there any fuel in the car? and also check that the fuel cut-off switch hasnt been activated underneat the passenger seat, check this by simply pushing down on the buttom located on the top of the switch.

[lovely146]

ok the first thing you need to do is make sure there is fuel in the car like langers said and the cutoff switch under the front passenger seat is not out. then if the car is not crankin (meaning it could be a starter motor problem) then you know what to do. if she is crankn then check if there is a small orange key sign on your warning lights because when you switch the ignition on that light must come on for about a second or two then go off, if it stays on then the problem is your key code system. if that is not the problem then open the bonet and unplug the airflow sensor, that is the sensor attachd to the black air intake tube that goes to the throttle housing. ifit still wont start then try resetting your E.C.U
if none of this works then DAMN!... i need to have a look at her

[marioviljoen]

Thank you, will try that. The only thing we did not try is the unplugging the airflow snsor and resetting the ECU. How do we reset the ECU?

[Ralf S.]

Try the basic things first.

Do all the warning lights on the dashboard go out after a few seconds? - No = Code/Immobiliser problem
Is the fuel shut off switch activated - Yes = that's the problem
Does the engine crank over? - No = Flat battery/knacked starter motor
Is there fuel in the tank? - No = Owner problem
Do you get fuel at the fuel rail - No = Filter/pump problem
Is there power at the injectors - No = wiring/relay issue
Are the injectors injecting (test with a bulb in the plug) No = TDC sensor problem
Is there power at the coil - No = wiring/relay issue
Are the plugs sparking (test with a dummy plug resting on the engine) - No = TDC sensor problem

Was the car running okay or did it cut out a few times in the past (hot) but re-started later? (TDC problem)

ECU don't go mental for no reason.. so it's the least likely problem really.

Depending what you find, it might point you into another direction. For instance if there's no fuel at the fuel rail and the pump is working... there's a problem right in between the two. I had a fuel pipe come disconnected inside the fuel pump.. but you need to narrow it down first.


Ralf S.

[marioviljoen]

Thanks Ralf, all the lights on the dashboard goes off after a few seconds. It had a problem starting, I then pressed the immobilizer button and then it started. Later on it won't start and since Monday it is still not starting. We checked the immobilizer, fuses, starter motor and wires, it has enough fuel, it has a new battery (one month old) checked battery terminals etc but no go!! We will however check a few other things you've mentioned. Thanks for the advise.... This car really have me confused

[Ralf S.]

When you say you pressed the immobilisor button... what's that? Do you have a separate button on the dashboard? Or do you mean the alarm button on the key or key fob?

Is there a little light on top of the steering column and is it blinking at you very quick (2 times a second?)


Ralf S.

[marioviljoen]

Yes I mean the alarm button, we have an alarm (Shurlock) that i suppose was installed after someone bought the car, we bought it secondhand about 4 years ago. The flickers is blinking when you press the alarm button for on\off, i suppose it could be the alarm as well but we checked it and it seems fine. I will check all the things on your list tomorrow and see if i can find something.. thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.!!

[Ralf S.]

The first thing to eliminate as a source of the problem is the alarm, if it also has an immobilise function.

The UK spec' (at least) 146s had a factory alarm & immobiliser, which can be over-zealous enough.. so unless ZA-spec' didn't have anything at all.. I dunno why someone's gone to the additional trouble of making the car even less likely to start..

Anyways.. .if your fella has an after-market alarm/immobilisor (key pad or button) then see if you can temporarily de-activate/disconnect it, so that it has no bearing on anything affecting the car being able to start.

If you can't.. depending on how the alarm/immob' works.. when you test everything you may see that some of the essentials are not there (e.g no juice at the coils) ...but bear in mind that the sympton might be a function of the immobilisor rather than a component on the car.

Ralf S.

[marioviljoen]

Thanks Ralf. We tried everything on your list, nothing works, car still doesn't crank over. We are still trying to see if we cannot bypass the alarm system, even tried to pull it to see if it won't start but no luck at all!!
so it either could be the starter which I think is unlikely or the alarm system.. it is so frustrating!!

[Ralf S.]

That's a weird one. Usually immobilisers at least let the engine crank over (since it's easier just to disable the coil pack say, than to stop everything from working).

I'd have a look at why the beast isn't turning over. Does it try to turn over but only weakly (clicking noise followed by some wueueeueueuerrrr activity from the starter) or do the starter relays not even engage? If the beast isn't clicking when you turn the key to MAR then it could be the immobiliser cuts out the circuit or you have a VERY flat battery.

You can test the starter with a voltmetre, to see if it has any current when the ignition is on.

My guess is still the immobiliser though... The first and only thing my mechanics ever asked me when I brought them a non-starter is "Does it have an immobiliser..?"


Ralf S.

[marioviljoen]

Last night we towed it to my home, when we came there it started!!! Can you believe it?? But when we switched it off it won't start again... we have a new battery that is about 3 months old, do you think it could be the battery or wires that is not making contact or short out somewhere?? We tested the starter and it has power but engine won't crank over, it is not making any noise at all except a clicking noise..

[Ralf S.]

Well.. we're getting somewhere. If the beast runs once it has started, then it pretty much rules out most of the other potential problems above. It's just a case of cranking the beast over and it will start.. by the sound of it.

Measure the battery voltage. It should be 12.6 volts. If it's less than that, top up the levels with distilled water (while you're there..) and then stick it on a charger for 10 hours or so. That ought to be plenty.

When you finish charging it, the voltage should read 14v... it'll gradually drop down to 12.6v. If it goes any lower than that (e.g. the next day) then either the battery is knacked or you have a serious drain going on. I'm assuming we'll leave the battery in the car for the time being.. removing it might just upset the immobiliser..

Anyway, each cell makes 2.x volts.. so 5 cells (if one is dead) can still give you a reading of 11.x volts. It's not enough. It has to be 12.6v.

If the battery is all happy, around 14 volts and fizzing away when you finished charging it, then it should turn the engine. If it's sluggish, then the battery could still be goosed. It can make the volts but not have the ampage needed to activate the solenoid.

If the engine makes no attempt at all to turn over, then the problem could be the starter or starter solenoid. The clicking (starter relay) is good but the next bit in the link might not be doing it's thing.

Changing the starter is a bit of a job.. so easiest way to check it's okay is just to stick a different, good battery in there just to try again. If you take the one out of a Ute, then that'll have enough juice in it.

If that doesn't do it, then you're looking at the starter or solenoid .. but if the different battery makes all the difference, then you just want a new battery.

If you buy a new battery, get the biggest barst' that will fit in the tray. I think an 096 (?) as fitted to the GTV 3.0Ltr will fit. It's got a few more amps..

Of course then you must check why the battery went so flat. It could have just died (a cell plate broke off etc. which would be pretty fatal) .. or you may just have a current drain .. but anyway, let's get the beast started first.


Ralf S.

[marioviljoen]

We will check this Ralf, thanks. I am starting to think this car needs a new owner LOL

[Ralf S.]

A quick whizz down to the seaside once it's back working.. and you'll soon forget about its little tantrum..

On the other hand, if the battery has just died (as distinct from being drained) then it's not really the car's fault anyway


Ralf S.

[marioviljoen]

Ralf you won't believe this but my car is STILL not sorted!! Still won't start and not even the auto electrician can find the problem!! I've really had it with this car!! Anyway I just want to thank you for all the help and patience with me! We will propably get someone else to have a look....

[Ralf S.]

Did you check the battery?

If that's fine (12.6v) then the starter should engage/turn the engine over.

If the beast just clicks then the starter relay and/or the starter solenoid could be breaking down and only working intermittently. Your mechanic will have a job to prove that... all the electrics will be "live" and working.. but the starter won't engage when you put a load through it (i.e. turn the key).

Get a starter from somewhere (any starter will do) and see if that works when you wire it up to the car's electics. You don't need to physically fit it to the car.

If it works and yours doesn't... then it's your starter that's the problem. If the new starter still doesn't work (assuming it's a good one in the first place) then there's a problem in the starter circuit (a relay or a connection to it being the best place to look).

Almost any problem with fuel delivery, TDC sensor, immobilisor, fuel-shut off, injection or coils etc. etc. would still allow the engine to turn over. It might not start... but it would turn over. You've got to be pretty close to nailing this now.

Ralf S.

[Barry]

A battery is not bad one minute then good the next ie so bad that it only clicks the starter.
The fault must be the starter motor if you can hear power going to it.
T.

[marioviljoen]

i will get them to check that asap, it is definately not the battery, we checked it and even tried another one, even though ours is a brand new battery that was fitted about two months ago. I suspect the starter relay, because if it was the solenoid would it be possible for it to start once and then not at all and all of a sudden again?? Is it possible?? Can you maybe tell me where to check for the starter relay?? We checked all the relays and fuses we could see in front and under the steering.

[Major_Day]

You say the battery is only 3 months old, did you clean the inside of the battery terminals with emery paper or a round file to make sure you have a good connection?

[Barry]

Originally Posted by marioviljoen

i will get them to check that asap, it is definately not the battery, we checked it and even tried another one, even though ours is a brand new battery that was fitted about two months ago. I suspect the starter relay, because if it was the solenoid would it be possible for it to start once and then not at all and all of a sudden again?? Is it possible?? Can you maybe tell me where to check for the starter relay?? We checked all the relays and fuses we could see in front and under the steering.

The starter solenoid will be incorporated in the starter motor assembly. If there is battery volts on the large starter terminal and you can hear some noise coming from the starter when you turn key, then its the starter motor assembly in trouble.
Its usually the brushes worn down so that they only occasionally touch the commutator.
T.

[pius1919]

Hi Nice people. (All protocol observed. )
I have the same problem here in Ghana. Unfortunately, I have no easy access to an Alfa mech and so I'll be very glad if you could assist me in any way you can. I have been reading comments to the issue at hand.

With my case, the Electrical System seems dead.

1. Inside light comes on just fine.
2. Radio works fine.
3. Radiator fan (which comes on as you turn the key) does not come on at all.
4. There is a click sound emerging from the Starter direction when I attempt to start the car.
5. The dashboard light comes on then dims when I try to start the car by turning the key all the way. (Usually when I turn the key all the way, it cranks. but it doesn't anymore.)

Please I also need help ASAP.
I put in a new (charged) battery for the above tests.

Please what is TDC? Thanks.

[Ralf S.]

Pius,

Yours sounds like a flat battery, even though it may be new and presumably charged. What voltage does the battery give you across the terminals when you measure it? It should be 12.6v.

If the battery is in good condition, it should crank the car. The click you hear is the starter relay engaging the starter.. but then it "stalls".. not enough juice to turn the motor. Obviously the starter could be seized up.. or the engine itslef could be seized up.. but assume the most likely and the cheapest to fix first..

The TDC (Top Dead Centre) sensor tells the ECU when the engine is at Top Dead Centre.. so it knows which cylinder needs fuel injection and sparks... and which one is on the exhaust stroke so doesn't. If this fails, the engine won't start.. since the ECU doesn't know when to inject or spark.. but the engine will turn over freely on the starter. If yours is not turning over, that's nothing to do with the TDC sensor.


Ralf S.