Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!! - Alfa Romeo Forum
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  #1 (Post Link)  
Old 25-09-08
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Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer

Help Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Hi friends ,

I have a Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer but I have a problem.
The car fuel consumption in the city driving in the 2-3000 rev range is around 15l/100km.
I've passed elektronical data test and it show 3 times higher pressure in the collector ( should be 280 but it's 630..).
Other thing that the CO was 5 times higher in the exhaust pipe.
All the computer and the map was working OK.
Another think connected to the problem ( I think) is the very hard brake pedal.

Any ideas guys ?
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  #2 (Post Link)  
Old 25-09-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Brake vauum hose may have fallen off giving you the hard brake and high emisions, not very common but it has the correct symptoms.
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  #3 (Post Link)  
Old 26-09-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

But when we eliminate it ( we close the exit for the pump on the collector for not loosing vacuum from the brakes ) it has the same symptoms.Can it be a demaged valve ? It looks like this is the problem for the lose of vacuum.
Because from this high pressure in the engine collector I have a high consumption of fuel and a hard brake.ANd the motor is vibrating at low revolutions- not working very well.
We've also mesured the pressure in each cylinder and it shows 15,5bars for #1, 14bars for #3, 12bars for #2 and 11 bars for #4.
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  #4 (Post Link)  
Old 28-09-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

AAAA Im getting crazy , can't find the problem.



#1 I cheked the MAP voltage and it's totally reversed :
When the carburator is closed it must show 1,5-2 volts , when oped it must rise from 2 to 3,5-4volts ( then the vaccum in the collector should be low)So from this voltage the ECU control the fuel consumption.It's mean that in my situation I HAVE A BIG LOSS OF VACCUM in the collector.From wher it can be ?!?!?

I've also test the MAP of another car and it show 1,5V when start the engine, then I put this MAP on my car and it shows the same as with the current MAP.So the MAP is not the problem.

#2 we correct the motor timing because it was not fitted to the marks now it's fitted correctly but there is no change in the MAP voltage.

Im now very sad because I very like this car and I buy it crashed I me and my father repaired our selfs and now I can't drive it because of the very big comsumption of fuel and also I can't feel these 103 hp.
I was on a freeway to test the maximum speed and it was around 170 km/h.

Please give me some advices
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  #5 (Post Link)  
Old 28-09-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Another thing that I think can be the problem to loosing vacuum.
I have a demaged air filter box and It's sucking air from the holes on the box not from the main tube.
The air filter Is also a type of resistor wich stops the air and create vacuum.Also the resonator box don't work as the air is sucking after it.

I will close the holes and see the result
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Old 28-09-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

The air box wont matter and the resonator is only there to make it quieter, the difference in the compression figures is right on the limits and accounts for the vibrating engine, there is a problem on the boxers that the manifold gaskets (60578451) leaks and this drops the manifold pressure, but the way you say the figures are reversed??? Are you geting 3.5 - 4V when at idle? Are you looking at the correct sensor? There are 4 of them on the boxer intake.
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  #7 (Post Link)  
Old 28-09-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Yes 3.5-4V when Idle and Yes it's the corect sensor the MAP on top of the manifold.A little black box GM.

When I remove the manifold there was 2 gaskets on each head.Green ones like from plastic.The one of them was demaged and I change it.
And then It shows 0,2V down. From 4V to 3,8V.When on contact it shows 4.5.
Can it be from the gaskets?
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Old 28-09-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Originally Posted by GMDriver View Post
Yes 3.5-4V when Idle and Yes it's the corect sensor the MAP on top of the manifold.A little black box GM.

When I remove the manifold there was 2 gaskets on each head.Green ones like from plastic.The one of them was demaged and I change it.
And then It shows 0,2V down. From 4V to 3,8V.When on contact it shows 4.5.
Can it be from the gaskets?
It may be the gaskets if it is affecting it and that was the gasket I was refering to, and yes that is the MAP sensor, so I can confirm you have a vacuum leak, take off the manifold againg and remove the 2 injection manifolds, then check the injectors are clean, even replace them if you like as if they are adding fuel when they shouldn't be, that will affect the vacumm too, but when you rebuild her, use a very thin film of liquid gasket, something like Heratite red is ideal, then fire her up and check the voltages again, if they've droped again then we're geting there, if there's no change then we're looking at a burnt valve.
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  #9 (Post Link)  
Old 17-10-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

So after removing the 2 heads of the engines and clean the valves (there were no demaged valves) I've reassembled the car and there WAS NO CHANGE AT ALL ....

So it's obvious that the problem comes from the timming BUT the timing is right and the valves are OK.
=> the "thing" that is connected to the timing and the valves is the HYDRAULIC TAPPETS

I undurstood then that the car was run 3 years with mineral oil wich caused the "pump up" hydraulic tappets and then the valves are not closing.
Now I will disassamble it again and will change the oil with semi-synthetic and will change the tappets.

If it's not fixed after this ( there is nothing else left to do) I will sell this devil car.

Also the problem with the bad brakes and the hard brake pedal still exist.
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  #10 (Post Link)  
Old 18-10-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Smaky , any opinions on the tappets ?
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Old 18-10-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Did you check for air/vacuum leak through the brake servo? That happens from time to time. The internal diaphragm deteriorates.
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Old 18-10-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Mineral oil won't damage the tappets, after all the engines were originally designed to be run with it.

I've just read through again and the pressures of 3 and 4 in the compression test are a little low, I think you could have actually thrown a piston ring, to be honest this engine sounds like it's just worn out. Has it hit the 200,000Km mark yet?
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  #13 (Post Link)  
Old 20-10-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

it's 178 000 km , now Im considering to change the tappets but Im also thinking to get the engine on the ground and to see is there anything wrong inside.

About the servo vacum when I close the vacum exit the engine works the same way.
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  #14 (Post Link)  
Old 06-11-08
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Chilling Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

On the tappets and the oil:

The first to produce hydraulic tappets was the americans.If you can see on the specifications of an american car with H. tapetts usage of 15w40 mineral oil ...

When working the mineral oil is changing the viscosity and create different pressure on different temperature.
Also it create oxides that can demage the tappets.

But if you think about all these things I mentioned : loose of power on under 4000 rpms, high fuel consumption ( caused by the lower vaccum in the intake collector) and also the valves are OK, it's look like a wrong timing , but the timing is on the marks and it's the right one (i've check it from the timing diagram in degrees !)

So only thing wich can change the timing working properly are the tappets.

Do you agree with me Smaky ?
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  #15 (Post Link)  
Old 13-11-08
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Re: Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer problem !!!

Smaky ??
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