My Progress & Timing Question

Started replacing my timing belt today

i have set the timing as best i can, but notice the lobes on the inlet cam appear to be out (facing directly up on the 3rd & 4th lobe) having not recieved my cam blocks yet, i was reffering to pictures of the blocks and it appears to slope back slightly. I have a feeling even before putting the cam blocks on the timing is out a mile.

See pics and tell me what you think

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My Alfa Gazibo Workshop

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like the gazibo idea

Cheers Simon

Your inlet cam is in the correct position. For reference, if you look at the photo of my cam locking blocks in the 2nd picture of the following post you will see that the inlet cam block (the bottom of the two stamped "I") actually has the top of the cam lobe slightly backwards (they fit on the cams with the open lobe cut-outs facing towards the cam belt end)...

Alfa 2.0 TS Engine Camshaft Locking Blocks

Yours does look like it's pointing slightly backwards to me.

Your spot on GE, just got the camblocks from tnt and they are spot on. I was hoping the timing was out, because it would explain the poor peformance. I have replaced the thermostat and hopefully when the variator is done etc etc i should see how an alfa should perform

Not looking forward to removing the variator though... i believe from your posts it was a pig

So was the timing out or not? It looks like the exhaust cam was out slightly to me.

the timing was spot on...it appears they have used the blocks on the previous belt change.

Apart from the screwdriver down the hole is there any more tdc markings on the crank pulley once the crankshaft V belt pulley is removed, as the markings are hard to line up accuretly.

Originally Posted by andylossie

Apart from the screwdriver down the hole is there any more tdc markings on the crank pulley once the crankshaft V belt pulley is removed, as the markings are hard to line up accuretly.

No other markings unfortunately. With no DTI dial gauge you just have to do the best you can with the markings on the crankshaft pulley / lower belt cover housing and an implement in the spark plug hole.

You would be better off using something as fat as you can in the spark plug holes (i.e. a socket extension bar) so you only have to worry about it moving up & down and not side to side as it wobbles in the hole. Just make sure it's long enough not to be able to drop down into the hole. Then lay something like a flat steel ruler across the engine and put a pen mark on the socket extension bar when the engine is close to TDC. Then use an accurate eye and your own judgement to find exact TDC getting the line to it's highest point using the ruler as a reference point. Actual TDC is obviously exactly halfway between the crankshaft rotation points where the piston initially reaches the top and when it then starts to fall again.

Just to add, it's actually easiest to get exact TDC one all the belts and pulleys are off so get rough TDC with the belts on using the markings then get an acurate TDC with everything off. Then once you've got it, put a couple of paint blobs on the crank pulley (the one you don't actually remove) and the engine block which line up. This is useful incase you accidentally turn the crankshaft when fitting the new belts.

Cheers GE

Regarding what you said, this is what i done.

cam.jpg

The crank pulley put up a bit of a fight, gave it a good wack with a rubber mallet

so far so good...hope it's all like that

I know it's early to say but the nerves will be building up when it's time to turn the key.

HELP.. Trying to remove exCam pulley, and it's a tight buggar. I have put the ex cam block to stop the cam from moving but i am worried that i may be applying a bit too much force. Will i trust the stregth of the cam blocks or do i find an alternative to lock the pulley.

would it be better leaving the pully on and undo the allen bolt behind the pully to release the cam end caps.

Originally Posted by andylossie

HELP.. Trying to remove exCam pulley, and it's a tight buggar. I have put the ex cam block to stop the cam from moving but i am worried that i may be applying a bit too much force. Will i trust the stregth of the cam blocks or do i find an alternative to lock the pulley.

would it be better leaving the pully on and undo the allen bolt behind the pully to release the cam end caps.

STOP!! Whatever you do DO NOT try and remove the bolt from the end of the exhaust cam with it just being held by the cam locking blocks. You are very likely to strip the thread from the bolt holes which are holding that cam lock in place and if you do you will be in trouble. That bolt is torqued up very tightly and if you do ever need to remove that bolt, you take the whole camshaft out and do it in the vice (like you do when removing the variator).

When doing a belt change, you don't need to remove or loosen the exhaust cam pulley at all. Just loosen the pulley on the inlet cam (4 ribe-headed bolts) and with that pulley loose on it's own, any slack between the two cam pulleys will get taken up.

You can remove the end cap which goes over both the camshafts without removing either of the cam pulleys.

Thanks GE... I did not bother with removing ex pulley, did not want to risk the strain and to be honest did not see any need from removing it.

The cam variator guide that alot of people refer to says to remove "the cam pulleys". Think that should be edited.

All is good so far, i am making my bracket for the variator and should have the car done soon.

1 thing to add the previous person that fitted the belts have stripped the front of the threads on the plate holding the timing belt idler

need to take the plate out and tap it

Taken the plate off and the threads were bad, tapped them out and tried the idler...it does lock but the threads are not as good as they would of been, would i be safe using loctite on this bolt.

here is a pic notice the damage to the front part, the bolt was very stiff getting out and came out diagonally (must of been an apprentice )

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Originally Posted by andylossie

Taken the plate off and the threads were bad, tapped them out and tried the idler...it does lock but the threads are not as good as they would of been, would i be safe using loctite on this bolt.

It depends on how loose the mated threads actually are. If the bolt can be wiggled after being screwed in then personally I wouldn't risk anything and would just get a new plate...or get the thread properly helicoiled back to the correct thread size. It's an aluminium plate so weaker than if it had been a thread into a steel plate. There is a lot of force on the tensioner pulleys and if the bolt thread is loose and you just use threadlocker then there will always be that worry in the back of your mind about it possibly breaking loose. At the end of the day, it's really your call.

The bolt isnt loose and grips/tightens well, but there is always the worry of it coming loose with the vibrations and loctite was the only thing i can think of. The other thing would be maybe to weld the hole with the tig and redrill then tap.

The problem i have with ordering a new plate is that i live in what is classed as a remote area and delivery takes up to 3 days

Originally Posted by andylossie

The bolt isnt loose and grips/tightens well, but there is always the worry of it coming loose with the vibrations and loctite was the only thing i can think of. The other thing would be maybe to weld the hole with the tig and redrill then tap.

In that case, if the threads grip well then I see no problem with using some low or medium strength loctite I don't think there would be any real advantage gained with tig welding and re-tapping it.

Thats reasuring GE

Here is my variator removing tool Should have no problems with that leverage.

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Originally Posted by andylossie

Here is my variator removing tool Should have no problems with that leverage.

I don't think you'll have many problem with that If you've not already done it then another owner had the innovative idea of using the old cambelt to protect the cam lobes while the camshaft is in the vice jaws...

Variator Removal

Will do

I got the tensioning tools, but have seen the wire trick that you done. Would i be better doing that with the T/B tensioner and manualy with the B/B tensioner.

Reccomendations on easy method

Originally Posted by andylossie

I got the tensioning tools, but have seen the wire trick that you done. Would i be better doing that with the T/B tensioner and manualy with the B/B tensioner.

If you've got the proper tensioning tools then use those. When I first did mine there was no such tool available (only the official Alfa tool - hard to get hold of and expensive) which is why I devised and used the wire-tie technique. As I can now do it easily that way I see no need to buy the tools myself but if you already have the proper tools then you might as well put them to good use

Oh, and when fitting the new variator I advise you to use a medium strength loctite as opposed to a high strength one. Medium strength is be more than sufficient and will ensure that the next perso