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mid corner understeer

4K views 20 replies 12 participants last post by  Trailbraker 
#1 ·
just wanting to know from people experiances if they have been suffering mid corner understeer?? e.g going around a round -a -bout and front end pushing out.

turn in and derection change on my car is very good..
but from some reason it cant hold corners well.

thanks for your replies
 
#3 ·
What model 156 do you have? The non sportpacked and V6 versions do understeer a bit. From my experience, although all front wheel drive cars do it to some degree.
 
#5 ·
mines a 1999 version V6 auto.
its got good normal quality 17inch tires at 35psi.(i've already tried different pressures). lowered suspension with sport shocks. front and rear adjustable sway bars (front on soft setting and rear on hard). and front strut brace.
alignment has been double checked.

i find it strangle that some owners are able to get the rear to step out.. and i cant evan manage to get the front to hang on.

then car turns nicely throught windy roads evan when pushed hard but when it comes to longer corners the front will start to slide evan with my foot off the pedal.

are my sway bar settings wrong?
 
#6 ·
You do realise these cars are fwd? Try experimenting with lift off oversteer - go into a corner, then jab the thottle and flick the steering in a little at the same time, when you lift off, should be able to make the back end come out.

Make sure you try this where its safe to, its good fun, but can be surprising at first.
 
#7 ·
if you blow the tyres up to or a little over the max for the car it will help with understear. if you put your hand on the tyre after a journey you can feal the heat in it and which parts are in contact with the road. (good rule of thumb for checking the tracking to).

I had to work really hard to get the gtv to under stear, i ran conti premium contacts all round at 39psi-2.7 bar, the tyres wore evenly and the turn in was fantastic!
 
#8 · (Edited)
You said "i find it strange that some owners are able to get the rear to step out.. and i cant evan manage to get the front to hang on".
Its actually the same thing : in that for the rear to be able to step out - the front must have more grip than the rear at that point in time :)
If your problem is that your front has no grip for whatever reason (worn bushes etc) you will find it extremely difficult to move the tail without being a hooligan.


Perhaps none apply to you but heres a few possibilities:

Was the road slightly greasy? There can be deceptively little grip in wet conditions depending on the exact surface makeup.
Cold tyres also have a fraction of the grip of warmed up tyres.

Failing that its possible you are simply going too fast through the corner initially? Stepping off the power won't immediately rectify understeer if you are going much too fast.
i.e. if on a long curve you build up way too much pace it can take a long time to kill understeer, lifting off the throttle only provides a transient effect.

You would need to reduce steering input as well, but you obviously want to make it around the corner.
Thinking quite a bit "ahead" of where you are going to be on the corner is helpful rather than just concentrating on the immediate bit of the curve in front of you - you need to be sure at all times that you can get back to your target points on your trajectory (apex/exit etc).
This is harder to do on a long curve, but noticing whether the curve is tightening or widening is very important.

Another thing is that perhaps you aren't transferring weight properly before turning into the corner.
i.e. if you leave too long before taking your foot off the brake and turning in then there is no weight over the front wheels and they will understeer like a mad thing!

Perhaps a spin in another 156 would see if it was a driver or car issue?

Cheers,
TB
 
#9 ·
What tyres have you got on?

I ran BF Goodrich all round for a while on an old car, then put 2 new Contis on the front. Realised how poor the BFGs were for grip in the wet when it would oversteer like an Opel Manta!
 
#10 ·
very good posting TB. :)

CAR magazine had a tiny piece recently on how a simple swap of tyres ruined the handling of their long-term test MX5 (swapped back tyres only - "handling became evil").

What particularly interests me is the mechanics and physics of driving (this is the sort of thing that Setright used to do really well at CAR). TB's comments on weight transfer are spot on.

Finally, driving on the main moor road from Whitby to Teesside yesterday (very fast road, prone to accidents) and joined a looong chain headed by a Micra.........maxing at 40mph. Unbelieveably he braked hard while tackling a straight, even, junction-free, hill - no oncoming traffic......nowhere near the apex.........just braked. What was he thinking???

It's that sort of thing that really gets my goat....we might chat about chronic understeer (by the way, mine does it too, especially when damp and cold - fair enuff really), but there are these characters around who probably never have accidents, have cheap insurance, and only get away with it because the decent drivers are looking out for them in the interests of self-preservation......this has become a rant hasn't it?:rant:

I've got 3 months before I re-qualify for protected NCB!!!!!:rolleyes:
 
#13 ·
Since the GTV doesn't have doublewishbone front suspension like the 156/147/GT (GTV has mcpherson struts) it might potentially be adjustable if you get an aftermarket camber kit.

The 156 camber can really only be adjusted implicitly by lowering the car, basically the camber increases as the suspension is lowered, so the harder the car corners the more it tries to change the camber to help keep more tyre area in contact with the road.

There may be some racing wishbone parts you can get for 156 variants but I have no idea where.
I imagine WTCC spare parts might be expensive :D

Cheers,
TB



Wacaday said:
i notice this on my GTV, i put it down to less than fantasic tyres.

Not sure anything can be done about it unless you can add some negative camber to the front wheel, but i don't think they are adjustable.

I hope they are!
 
#14 ·
Cheers Steve :)

Your absence of NCB didn't come from a similar random brake test by a doddering individual did it ?

Similar thing happened me only yesterday in a quiet suburban area no danger of hitting them or anything since I was reasonably awake but you have to wonder what is going through their heads
"oh my gosh thats a beautiful berberous bush in that front garden, I must slam on brakes now to get a really good look!" :lol:

Expect the unexpected!
 
#15 ·
N-Technology did have adjustable 147 Alfa Cup suspension parts on their site a while back but they have removed the "shop" feature since. Since 147 & 156 share parts, they might be an option but I seem to remember they were pretty expensive. Not sure how good they would have been for road use either.
 
#16 ·
The cars will power understeer in the wet and in the dry (on the track). Otherwise, they resist it well IMO and certainly better than any other FWD car I've driven :cool:

The VDC system is also very relaxed but will kick in if you are making a complete hash of it :eek:

I've had lift of oversteer twice before. Both when I wasn't concentrating and went in to fast to a tight bend :(

Cheers,
 
#17 ·
Somebody else mentioned N-technology before, but as you say I couldn't find any info on the site.

Hmm I just remembered I know somebody who has a second hand 147 GTA Euro cup protoype car, maybe he knows where to get spares!
 
#18 ·
Makker: What tyres are you running on? It could be they are a bit hard so will last ages but the handling is compromised.
 
#20 ·
Lower the pressure at lower speeds

Hillclimbing i ran 12-13psi but then if i got out of second gear i was doing well. If you are driving faster you will need higher pressures.

I spoke to Autodelta to day about a suspension upgrade, They think the only way to go was coilovers - bit pricey!!! They didnt recomend lowering the car more than 20mm and their Anti rollbars and lowered springs would not improve the handling that much.

I also looked up Interalloy as on ebay, they are czech not dutch :confused: but do get good reviews especially the coilovers by the VW'ers.
 
#21 ·
Spoke to my contact, but apparently even Eoinn Murray (BTCC) had serious problems getting spares from N-tech!! Guess I can write my chances off then! :lol

Trailbraker said:
Somebody else mentioned N-technology before, but as you say I couldn't find any info on the site.

Hmm I just remembered I know somebody who has a second hand 147 GTA Euro cup protoype car, maybe he knows where to get spares!
 
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