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Calling any alignment specialists!

1K views 22 replies 6 participants last post by  Robin 
#1 ·
Got alignment done on my 147.

Rears not adjustable, so they tell me.

they also tell me that front Camber not adjustable.

Car was feeling okay before alignment, I got done as eating inside of the front tyre. It now feels light and not comfortable in corners, which was the cars sweet spot.

Front Left Castor +2.26'
Front right Castor +2.44'
Front left camber -1.17'
Front right Camber -0.53'
Front left toe -0.08
Front right toe -0.09

Rear L camber -1.28'
Rear R camber -1.06'
Rear L toe +0.15'
Rear R toe +0.15

Opinions from those in the know very welcome. I should add that this is after the THIRD visit back to the garage.
 
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#2 ·
The only available adjustments are front toe AND rear toe.

Your toe settings front & rear are correct though and the other (non adjustable) settings are not far off either.

What were the toe settings before it was adjusted?
 
#3 ·
Just looked at the printout from my last alignment. According to the figures whilst in tolerance, your toe settings are right on the limit:

Front Toe -0.23 to -0.08 ideal setting -0.16
Rear Toe +0.15 to +0.30 ideal setting 0.23

Also, did they tell you what the thrust angle is? It should be 0. Any deviation from this will affect the cars handling.

Hope it helps.

Jon
 
#4 ·
JB76, it looks like your readings are in different units.
There are three ways of measuring it:
mm, ie: 3.27mm +/- 1mm
degrees & minutes (one minute = 1/60 degree), ie: 0deg29' +/- 9'
degrees in decimal, ie: 0.48deg +/- 0.15
 
#5 ·
Oops - the units I quoted are degrees decimal. The couple of places I've used have the same system and always show the toe as degrees decimal, whilst camber, caster, steer ahead and thrust angle are degrees minutes. Wrongly assumed they're all the same - sorry for the confusion!
 
#6 ·
Cheers for the help guys.

Two niggles:

1. Steering wheel slightly off centre (just below 5 past the hour).

2. Twitchy steering. Probably down to a new tyre with only 100 miles on it so still for the film to rub off. Also, the other front tyre is 6mmon outside and 4m on inside edge.

Plan to see how the next week goes, then get another front tyre if still skittish.

Thanks for the help, good to know my alignment is okay, if the steering wheel is slightly out.
 
G
#8 ·
Wilmslow said:
Got alignment done on my 147.

Rears not adjustable, so they tell me.

they also tell me that front Camber not adjustable.

Car was feeling okay before alignment, I got done as eating inside of the front tyre. It now feels light and not comfortable in corners, which was the cars sweet spot.

Front Left Castor +2.26'
Front right Castor +2.44'
Front left camber -1.17'
Front right Camber -0.53'
Front left toe -0.08
Front right toe -0.09

Rear L camber -1.28'
Rear R camber -1.06'
Rear L toe +0.15'
Rear R toe +0.15

Opinions from those in the know very welcome. I should add that this is after the THIRD visit back to the garage.
Is your 1.6 the 120bhp or 105 bph version?

How many miles on current suspension? is it lowered?

Did they measure the car loaded with a full tank of gas?

do you drive mainly on motorways or city?
 
#9 ·
Peter K said:
Is your 1.6 the 120bhp or 105 bph version?

How many miles on current suspension? is it lowered?

Did they measure the car loaded with a full tank of gas?

do you drive mainly on motorways or city?

70K's on the car. Have new track rod ends and anti-roll bar though.

Full tank of fuel

Motorways once a month for a 700 mile round trip and the rest is country lane driving.

Maybe I need to get another new front tyre. The tyre shop assured me loads left on the tyre, and it will not take long for the new tyre to bed in to even things up.
 
G
#10 ·
You should start with having proper tyres, evenly worn.

Cornering is very much related to front Toe-in. If you hardly do any high speed motorway cruisng, then a more agressive front toe-in setting will make the car corner better. The trade off is less "straight ahead" stabillity at higher speeds.

147 factory front Toe-in tolerance is -2 plus/minus 0.6mm.

AFAIK the front caster on your car is outside tolerance(3deg 55min plus/minus 30min), which is why i asked if there was fuel in the car. Not having full tank of gas does influence the front caster values.


Wilmslow said:
70K's on the car. Have new track rod ends and anti-roll bar though.

Full tank of fuel

Motorways once a month for a 700 mile round trip and the rest is country lane driving.

Maybe I need to get another new front tyre. The tyre shop assured me loads left on the tyre, and it will not take long for the new tyre to bed in to even things up.
 
#12 ·
Pretty pathetic that having had another alignment the steering is still not centred! Just a slight possibility that the one uneven worn tyre is the cause. Taken with the statement that the rear track is not adjustable suggests the shop is incompetent.
No problem with the rear tracking, the front is set in the middle of the range ie -2mm (toed out). With 156 or 164 0 to -1mm is better for even tyre wear. Don't know about 147.
What to do from here? Keep a check on the right front tyre for wear on its inner edge. You could try swapping the front wheels to see if it affects the centring of the steering wheel.If not take it back and tell the shop to centre it.
 
G
#13 ·
Hi Dave,

I was given the lastest data by my garage. They collected the data from that online system of Alfa's.

Got some revision numbers on the print if you need it. (Cd 03/2004) 4450 0 000 AA Page 44, subsection 05.04

These should hopefully be the latest figures. If not then they made a right mess of things. My GTA was out of tolerance on Caster, so it had to go though quite an ordeal to get it fixed.

Can mail them to you if you want a copy.(Pdf) Might come in handy. both 147,156 and GT is listed.



David C said:
The setting I have for a 147 is 3deg +/- 30', so his left front is only 4' out of tolerance.
 
#14 ·
The setting I have for 156 are 3deg55' +/- 30' but for 147 3deg +/- 30'.
That is from Autodata 2004.

A pdf by email would be great if you can send it over.
 
#16 · (Edited)
When travelling slow (10mph) or decellerating, wheel seems nice and straight. While accelerating the wheel is at a slight angle and I seem to be fighing against it, while does not feel planted. Clearly this is not the ideal!

If I was happy with P6000's I would without hesitation just buy another tyre for my front left. (Front left is 4mm and front right it brand new. Rear's are around 6, and equal wear).

Braking is excellent in the dry and al 30mph, have no confidence to try in the wet on the motorway! Also, despite feeling nerbous I took a tightish corner at 60 and it handled fine, as kept on the road no probs, although not feeling that comfortable about it. Grip seems great, hence wondering if I should just swap front and backs.

I know it is best to have good tyres at the back - would it be more dangerous to swap backs for fronts?

Or, should I just get another new P6000 for the front and live with P6000's for another 10K miles or so? Ie, would this be safer than swapping backs with fronts?

Alternatively... I am driving for 600 miles next week - I could just see how things settle. However, driving over some rough road today was a scary experience, got some tramlining.
 
#17 ·
You need to get another new matching tyre for the front, it is crazy to try and sort out a handling problem with such a big difference between the left & right front tyres.

Even though P6000 are not the best tyres available if that is what the one new front tyres is you have no choice.
 
#20 ·
David C said:
Yes, but you then end up with one new rear and one almost wornout rear...
Cheers guys.

Getting another one tomorrow, very reluctantly! (Not the money, even though it is another £100 (79 plus VAT) it is the priciple of putting another mediocre tyre on!

Still, if it is done tomorrow, it should have a chance to bed in nicely for my drive to Glasgow on Tuesday :)
 
#22 ·
The latest is that I now have another P6000 on my front. Naturally skittish given it is a new tyre, but the wheel does not want to wander any longer.

Once it beds in all should be well :)

My only worry is the alignment I have had. As Camber is not adjustable, and, if it seems to drive okay once both new tyres have settled, do I really need to get the alignment done again, given that the laser alignment done already seems pretty spot on?

Driving 600 miles next week, so should wear off the new tyre film nicely!
 
#23 ·
What equipment do most garages use when aligning wheels? Are they all laser these days? My 147 is wearing about 1mm more on the inside edge (fronts only) and am thinking of getting the alignment checked by my independant Alfa garage when going in for the service. Are they likely to do a good job without all the fancy laser stuff, in the case they don't have it?

EDIT: Added (fronts only) !
 
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