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2.4JTD Engine Mounts

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24jtd mounts
6K views 25 replies 5 participants last post by  Looneymoo 
#1 ·
Hi People,
I have ordered new engine/gearbox mounts for Bella,from Shop4parts and they arrived this morning .No problem there,but the right hand mount is totally different to the one on the car at the moment,for a start it is made from alloy,not steel . . . . .
A little research and it turns out that it that it is the one fitted to 136hp version.Bella is a 140.
It is also not the one pictured on their website,which looks just like the one on the car now . . .
I have phoned them up and they are looking into it,but I would like a little advice,if possible.
First,would the mount that has been sent, fit and if so, is it up to the job?I ask if it is up to the job because the newer version seems to have a lot more rubber than the one sent .
Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance
 
#2 ·
Hello Looneymoo,

I wondered exactly the same thing when I replaced mine last year; where's the enormous slug of lead, etc... The information I was told was its is a updated part, replacing the original design. Hope the info you get tallies....! It does seem to be ok, so far, having been on for nearly a year now.

Hope that helps
Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
 
#3 ·
Thanks for that,Captain,the guy I spoke to on the phone said something about updated part,but that it was updated to a steel construction. . . .
If you are using the smaller,alloy version with no issues,I guess it will probably be ok . . . . Just don't fancy the engine falling half out when I am having a bit of a 'dabble'!!would be a bit embarrassing and perpetuate the unreliable Alfa myth . . .
 
#4 ·
Hells Bells, Moo!

Don't say things like that:cheese: you'll have me out there at midnight with trolley jacks, axles stands etc...or hearing strange noises that aren't there!!!! There are enough that are there already...! I mean, you can only turn up ACDC to hide em for so long... In all seriousness, I have kept an eye on that mount, and it does appear to be coping with its job; it's certainly had enough opportunity to fail, since its not only handling the torque etc, but also the extra power from the water/ methanol injection kit, so I think you should be ok

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
 
#5 ·
Sorry,Captain,now step away from the trolley jack . . . . It is not midnight yet!!
I find when AC/DC isn't enough to hide the noises,a bit of ' Maiden usually suffices. . . . .when you need Motorhead,it is time to repair it!
Water/methanol injection?Sounds interesting,how much power does that add?
If that mount can cope with more power than stock,it should be fine with mine,she's standard at the mo,apart from a k and n panel filter(yeah I have heard the maf killing stories,but I have used them for years and never had a problem,unless they are over oiled).
 
#6 · (Edited)
Back in black = new anti rollbar links/ bushes ( works best in a 30mph zone)...
Shoot to thrill = is my clutch slipping?
Hell ain't a bad place to be = ball joints knocking
Let there be rock = oh, wait no, that's gotta be upper wishbones
Thunderstruck= ahh, good evening, officer....speeding?! moi?

Finally...

Ace of Spades = hello, eBay...I'd like to bid on a new engine, please!

Such Fun!

On a more serious note...(parp!!), can't really be certain as to the exact power the water/meth injection gives, but would estimate 25-35 bhp, (but she has not been remapped/ rolling roaded... Yet!) and it will be increased/ decreased by how adventurous you are by the percentage mix ( any more than 50/50, in favour of methanol, and you might incur damage), but I will say that you press the button....well, you know that bit in Star Wars when they go into hyperspace....it's not like that!! Unless you use it through the gears...I tend to keep it for higher gears/ higher revs to save the drive train. But anything else on the, er, track, will have to possess some SERIOUS horsepower if they want to keep up.

I guess what I'm saying is you add that kit to the torque of a 2.4 jtd and you have a giant killer...

I got mine from Coolisbetter ; he is often on the forum, I understand,and the kit is designed to fit the Alfa jtds.... And it does, very well. I reckon the stories re K&N filters oil fowling the maf are incorrect; I read a post from the Jedi master himself ( Grahameo ) in which he thought the damage to the maf was already done before the filter was fitted, and the owner made the assumption the filter was the culprit...of course if you empty a bottle of filter oil over one after cleaning it........then that probably would kill the maf...!

All the best
Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
 
#7 · (Edited)
Haha!I may add one or two to the playlist . . .

Two minutes to midnight . . . .and I am in work in five hours . But I will get this airbox back together . .
Run to the hills . . . . .the other half just realised how much 'attention'(read money!) Bella gets!
Wasted Years . . . . .but I have an Alfa now!

Oh well back to engine mounts,I received an email from Shop4parts and the part they have sent is indeed the latest version as the earlier ones occasionally fell apart so were revised,twice.
Well now that I feel reassured that my engine won't be left in bits on the highway to hell(or work as I prefer to call it) how does the water methanol work?is it fed into the engine along with the air,to lower the inlet temp amongst other things?Very curious now!
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hi Toso
Right,the rear gearbox mount is finished,the passenger side driveshaft knocks on the subframe,because of this and the drivers side engine mount has been overtightened at some point in the cars past and is showing a lot of perishing and cracks that any attempt to undo the bolt,make worse.The top mount is also perished and cracked badly . . . For what it is worth the passenger side mount is actually quite healthy!
As for symptoms,obviously an annoying occasional knock from the driveshaft!
There is a sound similar to going over a cattle grid,at high speed,when trying to reverse,unless downhill,that is also present on the overrun,in lower gears.
There is also a feeling of something being a little loose at the front of the car,when going round corners,but all the suspension,etc. is fine
Think that covers most of it . . . .
 
#10 ·
Hello Looneymoo,

Sounds like you are in for the same fun I had with mine...I would recommend you order a new bolt for the drivers side mount; I found the only way to remove the mount/ bolt was to take the whole assembly off the engine/chassis and with cutting disc on the angle grinder, remove the old mount. Then you will very probably have to get the steel bolt out of the alloy bracket...I used a hot air gun, and wonder wheels alloy cleaner... You can see it fizzing away at the corrosion/ electrolytic reaction..persist with it, it WILL come out! I took a while on this because I was attempting to save the bolt, but frankly it's a waste of time; if I were to do it again ( or rather, when!), I'd chop the old mount off straight away.

The Water meth injection system is controlled by a boost determined switch ( adjustable ), so only activates even if the system is armed at a certain point in the rev range. The injector fits into an alloy ring which you splice into the inlet pipe to the manifold; it ideally needs to be at least 12" from the manifold, or the mixture won't be mixed into the airflow properly. The water part cools the charged air mixture (and steam cleans your manifold too!), whilst the methanol part provides an extra amount of volatile fuel. There are more advanced versions of this type of kit around, but the cost/ benefit of this kit really appealed to me....and get this; I just renewed both Alfas insurance with Aviva....and declared all the mods on my car...( and even I few I haven't actually done yet!) and they had, and I quote " absolutely no problem with a water injection kit fitted to my car!!" Even some of the companies I called ( who reckon they 'specialise' in modified cars!) said the water injection was a deal breaker!! ....wonders never cease!! I suppose I really ought to stop slagging off their awful tv adverts!

Oh by the way, Don't forget the engine steady bar; if the bushes fail on that, then the engine will jump around as badly as if the rear gearbox mount has gone too... In fact I'll bet that is probably as bad as the other mounts, especially the bush nearest the block ( heat).

Hope the highway to hell is traffic free!! If we ever meet, and I find your alfa is full of Barry Manilow CDs......I'll be soo disappointed !!:lol:

Hope that helps
All the best
The Captain:thumbs:
 
#12 · (Edited)
Ah,Captain,if we ever meet and my car is full of Barry Manilow cds,call the police immediately . . .cos some b@gger has stolen my Bella!!!Most of my music is on my phone,(copied at CD quality)but I have a couple of emergency back up cds . (Now where did I leave that Kylie CD . . . . . .!!).just in case of phone issues!!

Tox1c,I hope it was only the Kylie CD that was consigned to the 'heap?I think(well only if I have to!)maybe the previous owner had kids and 'forgot'the CD accidentally on purpose?

In regards to engine mounts,I think the bolt actually moved in the alloy part,but that may be wishful thinking . . Your idea about a spare bolt is a very good one,not sure where to get one though,is it dealer only?
I have bought all four mounts,including the steady bar,it is tired and if I need to change the others it means that one has been strained too.Well that was how I saw it.It is always good to have a little confirmation,tho:thumbs:

I can get some acid based detergent type stuff from work,just need to get the right one or the alloy part may just fizz away to nothing!

I appreciate the walk through,from someone who has been there done that,at least I know what I am letting myself in for now!The other three have all been recently undone when the clutch was changed .

Think I will have a look at the water meth system,extra power and a cleaner inlet manifold sounds great,especially extra power . . . . .will help on the highway to hell,which is usually quite empty at five in the morning . . . It is when I am trying to escape hell that Bellas turbo gets umm exercised,purely in the interests of keeping the vnt free . .and not to overtake members of the forty mph brigade . .
All best Captain,just off to hide my Manilow collection . . .
 
#13 ·
"Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl ........!!!" Whoops! How the hell do I know that?!!!?

Hee-hee!:lol:

I sourced the bolts from those lovely chaps at Alfashop, but can't recall which one you'll need for the drivers side; if memory serves they are different lengths. I do recommend the water meth system; perhaps the only criticism I have with the system is the size of the tank supplied with the kit- I know some fits have used a much larger tank in the spare wheel well - but I am reluctant to lose my spare ( changed it to a full size, as I had to use the space saver once....it was a proper pain in the derrière - 3 in the morning, still 150 miles to go...), but i find it suits the way I use it to last for 2-3 weeks before topping up is neccesary so it's not too bad, I guess. But if you were crazy with it, you'd empty it faster... But it's a positive boon on hills, slip roads, overtaking and my own personal favourite ...leaving speed restrictions on motorways! So I find you only need to use it for fairly short bursts... I know Dan at Autolusso (Pud237) has one to go on his 10 valve...but keeps putting it off..claims to be busy with a new baby :thumbs: or some such nonsense:D.... Come on Dan! Get it on! You'll love it!

Ohh, yes just thought, also the wiring diagram misses off the finer points of connecting the arming switch, just in case you aren't of an electrical bent... But apart from that...Tops


"With a feather in her hair, and a dress cut down to there.....!":cheese:

Posted from the Copa cabana!
Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs::cheese:
 
#14 ·
Oh hell you used the only lines I know . . . .
"Oh Mandy,you came and you gave without takin. . . ."err . .
and I bet you sang it in your head as you read that . . .I did,err,umm I mean didn't ,when I read your post . .:cheese:

I shall give Alfashop a ring and see if they can help,thanks for that.

I was going to ask about the tank and its mpg,if you see what I mean?
I also have full sized spare,due to a pothole incident,bending both wheels on the passenger side and then suffering the indignity of the space saver,fun on the back,dangerous on the front!!
I guess you could say I have an electrical bent,used to make and fit wiring looms,mainly in kit cars . . . .loved that job,too . . .so sorting out the arming wiring would be quite enjoyable!
At the moment I am assembling the bits to make an auxiliary heater,cos in the winter the engine takes ages to warm up,unless I drive quite hard,even after changing the 'stat.just need a voltage sensitive timer/relay,so it won't come on if there is too low a voltage present.
Is Pud237 putting it on his 'project' Alfa,the green one?That car will fly!!!

"And I sent you away . . Oh Mandy . . .":cheese:
 
#15 ·
Did I sing it in my head? Put it this way, took the dog out earlier, and all the way round, playing in my head, on a nonstop loop...was that bloody song!!!

The wiring in for the w/m injection will be a peice of cake for you then! Nice! Yep, the amazing Pud237 will be fitting his to the Green Hornet, er I mean his 10 valve Project Alfa....very interesting what Dan's done - there is so much removed under the bonnet; an incredibly empty engine bay, compared to the factory set up....so he's got loads of space to fit it!
Am very interested in your preheater plan; will you post details when you've got it sorted? Is it like the old Kenlowe system? Always thought that was a good idea...

Yours, samba-ing the night away:cheese:
The Captain:thumbs:
 
#16 ·
Oh,save me,that song is like an ear worm . .it is still stuck in my head . . .even my dog is doing the samba . . . . .or maybe I need to get the frontline out for him . . . !!

Sadly the pre heater,is more of an auxiliary heater,as opposed to the Kenlowe pre heater(agree with you,great idea that is!).Being practical though,I would not always have access to a power supply for it.
So after careful consideration,I thought that the glow plugs in a box idea,that is fitted before the heater matrix,will be a reasonable compromise.I noticed that when it is cold and the heater is on flat out,the coolant temp really struggles,especially going downhill . . .
A little research and a thermostat later,I discovered that some direct injected diesels have additional heater,so I thought (dangerous thing,that thinking!) I could do that!
So far I have bought an inlet temperature sensor from a mid 90s vw,that switches off at about 55/60°c,a brass t piece(19mm),an m10x1 brass nut(to fit the sensor) and the 'hedgehog' glowplug thingy,from a Renault . . . Just waiting on the voltage sensitve timer . . .there is a spare fuse in the bus box,specifically for an aux heater,already and I have a selection of relays waiting.
If it works as I hope,future developements may include an ambient temperature cut off,and possibly a two stage heating system,so if one or two plugs would suffice,it will cut power to the others,but that is way down the line!!
Will just keep it simple to start with,just in case it doesn't work!!
If it is successful,I will post it up here in case someone else wants to give it a go!
Geez,it is hard to type and samba . . At tha copa. . . Aarrgghh . . Maybe the frontline spray will help me,too . .
 
#17 ·
Ok,Captain the frontline worked . . . .on the hound at least!!
Alas,you were right on the money about the drivers side engine mount,tried an impact driver on it and I might as well have used a toffee hammer!or one of my Manilow cds . .
All the others have been changed and I am really pleased with the result,no judder when I start or stop the engine,so much quieter on the move,no dashboard rattles when giving it the beans,but because of the drivers side mount,I still have cattle grid impressions when reversing,but not as bad . . .always thought it was the rear mount doing that,I was wrong!
Thanks for the advice,where to source a replacement bolt and the water meth idea . . . .but not the Manilow song that just won't leave me alone . . :cheese:
All the best,mate!
 
#18 ·
I feel some judder on take out and reverse, i have to add some throttle to avoid this ... changed upper mount and lower gearbox (the original was fine but just in case) problem is i still have the judder ... DMF is not a possibility since i dont have any vibration on lower rpm in high gears and no sound when idling and pressed/depressed clutch. Maybe clutch, but it does not slip, pulls well ... maybe pressure plate or release bearing. Clutch cylinders are ok, had problem with the slave but i changed it. Suspension is in good shape, new shock absorbers, ARB bush, drop links (old ones by TRW were fine, don`t know why i changed :-/ with Birth ones) lower wish are in good shape.

Also i have noticed a strange thing, when i unplug - on my battery, then juddering is gone for some km. So it got me thinking can it be dirty EGR, MAP, MAF sensors

So how can i check the side engine mounts (my mechanic checked them by moving the engine with hand, but they seemed to him ok) and what about the other possibilities, above mentioned sensors?
 
#19 ·
Hi Toso,does your car judder when you start and stop the engine?mine was til I changed the engine mounts.There are other things that can cause that,as well,like the stop flap on the inlet manifold!it gets full of black sooty muck,like the egr and map sensor.
If I was you I would clean the MAP and EGR,there are guides on here,use the search function.
But first,if you can,get any codes read and cleared,then go for a drive and see if any come back!
The side mounts on my car were showing signs of cracking,the rubber part,not the metal bit,so it was easy to tell that they needed changing,also the engine moved a lot at tickover,and the judder when stopped/started.
Sorry I can't help much more,it is really hard to try and work out problems from a distance!
Good luck finding the problem
 
#20 ·
Hello Toso,

Wise words from the 'moo! But it might also be worth checking the earth cables integrity - if moving this around relieves the symptoms temporarily, then perhaps you have a break in it somewhere...? Also, I wonder if the clutch damper failing could give similar symptoms? Afraid I don't know how the function of this part can be checked ? Does anyone know ? Otherwise, I guess worst case could be the springs in the clutch pressure plate failing? But I hope not!

Hope that helps
The Captain:thumbs:


Hello Looneymoo,

Good to read you managed to samba under the Alfa with success! Glad to help, in some small way - just did a search for a Kenlowe type preheater on the bay; seems a useful system is around £80. How does that stack up against your system? (Although these are plug-in-mains system)...just found the lyrics for Copa cabana online...fighting the urge to go Barry!! Should we start a secret Manilow appreciation society....Er, maybe not. Surely that would be reasonable grounds for being banned from the forum!:cheese:

All the best
The Captain:thumbs:
 
#21 ·
Thanks guys for the info, so far no sigh of any error on dash, but have friend of mine with FES and needed cables, will check the values of MAF, MAP, clean the EGR ect... also will check the side engine mounts as much as i can, engine sometimes rumbles :D at shut down ...

Cheers mates
:thumbs:
 
#22 · (Edited)
Hi Toso,If you take the undertray off the car,and lay on the floor you can see the mounts and with a torch,get some idea of their condition.My car has done about 180k miles(approx 290k km)on what looked like the originals!except maybe the rear gearbox mount,looked newer.A good call from the Captain about the earth cables,too and maybe check the fuses relays etc. on the positive terminal on the battery as well.Won't do any harm either!
Good luck finding and sorting it

Hi Captain,just had another quick samba under Bella,I put a stainless steel exhaust on at the weekend and was showing it to a mate but it sounded even louder than normal,like it was blowing . . . . So under I samba'd . . .nothing blowing at all . . . .turns out the lid of the airbox has undone itself . . . . I wasted a good samba . .
I think the clutch damper is there to protect the drivetrain from shock loads of,for example,a foot slipping off the clutch?If I take my foot off the pedal,very quickly(engine off!),the clutch pedal won't keep pace with my foot.Not sure how it works,but may not be so effective if there is air in the system?Only guessing about that,mind.
It is a good time to pick up preheaters,they get more sought after when the weather gets colder.At the moment the cost of my heater us under £30,but the pre heater bit is second hand,but good condition.
Ooh a secret Manilow society,yay!err I mean what a terrible idea. . .a certain lifetime ban from not just this forum,but the internet in general!!:cheese:
Getting a little concerned that you were actually looking for the lyrics . . . . Have to say that . . .don't want a ban . .wouldn't catch me doing that . . .no one checks browser history . . . Do they?
All the best,Captain
 
#23 ·
Mmmm,well that was fun . . . . Took your advice,Captain and butchered the mount to save the bolt . . .after an hour success bolt retrieved in fine condition . . . Well chuffed . . .while I felt I was on a roll,I thought I would have a go at the tensioner bolt . . . . After a couple of squirts of plusgas and a cuppa length break(about a third of Barry's greatest hits . . .). . CRACK!! . . it came undone and for the first time I could retension the aux belt!I was really on it,but not wishing to push my luck,I thought right time to put my new mount on. . . . .lined it up,raised the engine,put the bolt in . . .and it was about an inch TOO SHORT!!!!@##@@!!!ωωω¥¥¥ «§§ω®©¤}}{¥¥sakes . . . is a polite version of my response.
Result : three days off the road waiting for the right part to be sent out,I was right it was wrong mount all along ..
 
#24 ·
Anyone else noticed what looks like (without dismantling yet) some enlargement of the engine top steady-bar/tie rod? Wondering whether this might be allowing some engine movement during pullaway/gear-changes, etc. If so, sounds like being cheaper to remedy than some other causes. Drive shafts are okay, so far.
 
#25 ·
Hello Looneymoo,

My sincere apologies, just re-read my posts and to my dismay, noted I entirely missed a crucial bit of info ( do recall losing a long post, and having to re type one); I had to order a new bolt from Alfa shop to suit the revised mount. Terribly sorry, hope you've overcome that snag and you're back on the road.

Kind regards
The Captain
 
#26 ·
Hi Captain,
No need for apologies . . . I blame the Manilow effect . . . . .
I complained to the supplier and to their credit,they sent the correct part out,that day.
Bella was off the road for a couple of days as I started the job on a Saturday afternoon.
Alls well that ends well as they say!
 
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