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Dropping engine and box - first timer

23K views 373 replies 18 participants last post by  brit01 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi guys,

Back to my own new thread now as I'm planning to drop my 8v engine and box for the first time.

Already got loads of help from you guys from another thread I hijacked:rolleyes:
.

Will have more questions to come.

Greek mentioned a couple of things to me by IM today. I want to ask:

1) how to modify the sump to improve flow on tight corners (possibly a question for Kev)
2) how to clean the oil channels in the block effectively and cheaply (vinegar, baking soda and soap?) Also to clean the inside of the block, clean enough to eat off.
3) Can I drop the front cross member with the wheels still on the ground or does the suspension need to be off the ground to release the tension on the springs?

Engine has 135,000 kms on it and have ordered standard main bearings. Got some plastigauge. Just hope the crank is still within spec as I don't want to have to re-grind. Will see with the plastigauge once everything is out.
 
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#211 ·
Hi Brit
I think when I did this I had the same difficulty and so I think that I did undo the front cross member, then bolt the tie bar to the suspension strut and then do up the cross member. I think that another time I also dropped the suspension strut complete by undoing the four nuts at the top inside the engine bay ( The strut does not spring apart as there is a nut holding the whole strut assembly together - you need a pair of spring compressors to safely take the nut off !!).
 
#213 ·
Hang on mate ! The 17 wrench bolts ! Not the 13's on the top
No worries I knew that one.:lol:

Just thought the bottom part was also under tension.

Some pics would be great if you have the time. Don't want to bother you too much though.
Couldn't find a plumbers wrench though.
If really necessary probably have to buy one.

I'm busy cleaning up the engine front and back plates, pistons, pump, sump etc at the moment so plenty to do in the meantime.
Those gaskets on the front and rear plates are somewhat a PITA to get off.
Just put a second coat of paint on the bare block ready for it's final clean before installing the guts.

Cheers

Chris
 
#214 ·
Some pics would be great if you have the time. Don't want to bother you too much though.
No trouble at all mate, I'm taking pictures anyway for the customer.


Couldn't find a plumbers wrench though.
If really necessary probably have to buy one.

No need to mate, You will see from the pictures that you can use other tools as well.

Those gaskets on the front and rear plates are somewhat a PITA to get off.


If you think those are hard, try removing the gasket of the oil samp !!!
 
#215 ·
Oil sump was the easy one for me luckily. Nice fresh cork that peeled off.
Front plate had been cemented on!

Now another question. In the manual it says to use cement with the new gasket.
I'm not a fan of cement.

Would the paper gaskets be ok on their own for the front and back plates of the block?

:thumbs:
 
#216 · (Edited)
What would you prefere mate ? Using gasket seal or risking oil leaks ? :eek:

Did the job last night mate. Took 30 mins to fit the crossmember, and another 25 mins to fit the drive shafts - which is my worst job ! Yours will be a lot easier, as you wont have to allign the holes of the brake disks and drive shaft spacers like I did on the inboard brake system.

File names have been changed to time created, so 18-32 means 6:32pm.
I didnt even need a plumbers wrench. Went in by hand :)

Here are the pictures and I will guide you through :

18-32: crossmember in the form to be installed. Yours will have the brakes on the hubs as well
View attachment 131705

18-36: pushed under the car. Use jacks under the ball joints of the hubs and lift the hubs as high as possible on BOTH sides. Make sure you have them secure so they want fall off.
This will help you get the angle right for the front section, so you wont have a hard time bolting it up.
View attachment 131706

18-45: Make sure that the front center mount of the engine is loose. This will drop the engine at its lowest position. Jack up the front section of the crossmember, but not high enough to touch the chassis. Leave it about 0.5cm away. This will help you put the bolts in.
View attachment 131707

18-46: That was quick ! :lol: Bolt the 4 bolts of the front section of the crossmember. Use a normal wrench to begin with. This will help you push up the bolt while you are bolting it, long enough for the thread to begin grabbing on. Clean bolts and threads will make your life a lot easier here.
Dont tighten the bolts fully up ! Remember you still have a 0.5cm gap between the crossmember and chassis. Dont take that up with the bolts.
Check the lower front mount of the engine. That one bolts in place with 2 13's in the center of the crossmember. Allign the engine mount with the holes, and if possible, put those in now, but again NOT fully bolted. Allow as big a gap as possible.
Now, jack the front section of the crossmember up till it touches the chassis and tighten the side bolts, the center lower mount bolts and the top engine mount bolt.
View attachment 131708

In case you are wondering, the reason why you are undoing the engine top mount and leaving the lower front one loose till last, is so that the crossmember will push the engine up in place, minimizing any stress to the front lower mount of the crossmember. If the lower one is stressed because its been bolted on with engine higher than it should be, it will snap very quickly.

18-51: Keeping the jacks on the hubs, or whatever other supports you choose to use, and with the front section of the crossmember now in place, you will see that the rear arms allign by themselves. I just used a small screwdriver to finely allign the holes, so that the bolt would go in. Once its in, you can give the bolt a few taps so it comes out the other side.
View attachment 131709

18-57: both sides done
View attachment 131710
 
#217 · (Edited)
18-58: You can now remove the jacks or supports. You see now that the hubs are very close to where they should be.
View attachment 131711


19:02: Bolt on the hubs. Remember to do them as far as you can by hand. Make sure they turn in easily. Shake the hub a bit if they arent and bolt them while you are moving it. This is just to make sure you've got lots of thread already in before you use a tool to tighten them. This way they dont get damaged.
View attachment 131712

bolt on the drive shafts. This will be a lot easier for you mate as I had to allign the disks and spacers with the holes on the gearbox and of the drive shaft, while on my back !
View attachment 131713
View attachment 131714


I did the front lower mount last, as the jack was in my way earlier and couldnt do that. I made sure though that the bolts of the mount were alligned with the holes of the crossmember when tightening the crossmember bolts. Its a bit tricky if its not alligned, so best you do it where I mentioned before.
View attachment 131715

Hope this helps mate !
Good luck :thumbs:
 
#218 · (Edited)
Wow that's great.:thumbs:

So you remove literally the whole section including both suspension arms and brakes. Had no idea.

I will try your method, in reverse order to remove it, and hopefully it goes back in much faster and easier than the nightmare I had trying to follow the AR manual steps.

:)

p.s I will try and get some gasket seal for the plates as you suggest.
Silicon type or what do you recommend. Choices are pretty limited here.
They have a cement type I just found.
 
#222 · (Edited)
supercharged16v:

Just occurred to me as you mentioned before about the brake lines.

Don't really want to disconnect the brake lines and have to fill and bleed them after.

Never done this before but I imagine this is a time consuming job no?

Maybe another way is to drop it all as you gave instructions but also disconnect the rear suspension arm leaving it on the ground with the brakes so I don't need to remove them.
 
#225 ·
you can just remove the calipers from the hubs then mate, and leave them hanging there
Thanks mate. Just thought about that while having a nap this afternoon.

i use this type of sealant for any paper gaskets, just a thin smear.

never had a problem

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hylomar-Un...item45f9af06c3

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hylomar-Un...item3a6d258fec
Cheers Kev.
I think the Wurth sealant is the only one I can get here. Just a couple of quid.
Ebay will take about 4 weeks to get here on top of xmas post.
 
#226 ·
So reverse order would be (in my case no engine in place):

Remove brake calipers.

1) Place jacks under hubs(no pressure - just touching)
2) Remove 4 bolts from suspension hubs
3) Remove rear suspension arms bolts
4) Remove front cross member bolts and lower whole unit onto ground
 
#229 ·
Well after a whole afternoon of measuring the main bearing shells, mixing them back and forth, ended up with the new Glyco ones just on the front bearing journal.
All now have a clearance of about 0.050mm.

2 of the old original shells had a better fit than the new Glyco ones. I expect they were the fattest of the 3 colours of the standard size.

Also another place with more than 0.2mm of play was the oil pump bypass valve (both on the shaft and seat)!!
Luckily I have a new one with no play.
0.2 mm is a lot of play and imagine I was loosing quite a few pounds of pressure here when hot.

Quick question.

I need to use gasket sealant on the front and back plates the block with paper gaskets.
I have 3M sealant.
Is is best to coat the metal sides or cover both sides of the gasket?
 
#231 ·
Quick question.

I need to use gasket sealant on the front and back plates the block with paper gaskets.
I have 3M sealant.
Is is best to coat the metal sides or cover both sides of the gasket?
Not familiar with the 3M sealant mate, as long as its not thick, yes that would be the way to do it.
Dont use too much though, just a very thin layer :thumbs:
 
#235 ·
whichever is easiest for you

may well be easier to apply it to the metal faces to stop the risk of tearing the paper gaskets
Yep was thinking along the same lines.

The plate paper gaskets are pretty thin and I have only one set sent from JustSuds 6000 miles away!

I think the instructions say apply to both sides of the metal surfaces, wait 10-15 mins and then stick together. (It's all in Portuguese!)

:)
 
#237 ·
Yep I was thinking the same - probably take 5 mins to apply the sticky stuff carefully all the way around.

Regarding the oil pump spring washer:
Does anyone know the specific thickness of this?

Mine has a very very thin washer under the spring. Just curious to know what the factory used. If this is original or what.
 
#241 ·
Maybe a daft question before I start reassembling the block/crank etc:

Once the flywheel is put on and I install the oil pump at TDC how do I know the recently removed crank is at TDC and not at it's half cycle?

I mean the piston comes around twice every cycle doesn't it? (T mark comes around twice) Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But after a complete rebuild now I'm thinking does it make any difference as long as I position the oil pump at the correct angle for the dizzy to point to piston 1 when the flywheel is at the T mark before the heads go on?
 
G
#242 ·
you sort of answered your own question there.
you're right the crank turns twice for every cycle compared to once for the cams/distributtor.
the oil pump slot will also only turn once for every 2 rotations of the crank too.
so if you get the flywheel on the "T" mark and the slot for the distributtor is offset the wrong way around then turn it over again.
whilst the slot has to be at the right angle when looking down the hole to time the sparks up right it also is offset one way, not symetrical
 
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