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Suspension recommendation

12K views 95 replies 16 participants last post by  jomor 
#1 ·
OK, the big moment has come :D

I m going for a new suspension for my bella. I just had the steering rack replaced on warranty and the front noise is gone :cool: Now the rear noise is from the shocks and its getting worse day by day, so i was thinking to fit a set of H&R springs ( as they are softer (!!) than the stock ones at the first mm of compression ) and i need to find a set of shocks that will be a soft match for them.

Until now i only tested a 147 with HR+stock shocks ( quite comfort combo, but gives a slight body roll on some occasions, and they stock shocks dont last long). I also tested a 147 with HR springs and Bilstein B8 (yellow sprint) shocks. Great performance, I cant say it was harsh, but i cant say it was comfort either.

I would like a shock that will be between these two, a bit softer than the B8.

I was thinking about the red Konis but everybody says that they they need re-adjustment every once in a while and they have reliability problems lately as all Konis have.

B8 seems the only solution until now, any ideas ?
 
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#52 ·
Veloc_Gee said:
Don't write off other combos.

I found the eibach springs more progressive than the standard springs with the standard shocks. They need the matching dampers to really shine & can recommend this combo - they have transformed the ride & handling of my car.
Belay this; just noted how old this thread is. Must have been drinking........oh, I have ;)

ps defo no driving tonight then :(
 
#53 ·
jomor said:
Closing the parenthesis, I take your word about variant 2, but i cant afford it. I m doing changes at my house at this period and i cant go for such an expensive set.
Well done Yanni at last you decided to make a decent place to live in and quit sleeping in your bella :lol:
J/K man I'm just back from vacations and trying to adjust :D
 
#54 ·
Veloc_Gee said:
Belay this; just noted how old this thread is. Must have been drinking........oh, I have ;)

ps defo no driving tonight then :(
No problem, in fact some matters like tyres and suspensions etc are always in season.


I wouldnt mind giving 100 or 150 euros more to get a suspension kit (matched springs and shocks) instead of finding shocks for my HRs if they re gonna be progressive and reliable.
 
#56 ·
jomor said:
come to Athens for a week and I ll tell you if your re still on vacations back in your city or not..

welcome back
If you need help with the house I'll be glad to give a hand but not until next month (new kid on the way :rolleyes: )

Glad to see (read) your old mood is not lost though :D
 
#58 ·
I'm afraid the shocks on my 147 are dying too (or maybe I'm too picky :D ). And I was thinking about new springs... :rolleyes: and I don't want to spend a fortune... oh bugger. :rolleyes: :D
 
#60 ·
jomor said:
UPDATE AFTER 10 MONTHS: The B4 shocks are already "out of order" :mad: They ve lost their damping force recently and the car bounces up and down more too much. The rear ones make strong noises at potholes when they re cold. :mad: It seems they re not good enough to handle lowering springs for long...

So I have to pay again for suspension mod in less than a year :rant:
And here we go again: I have two options
a) replace the shocks with Yellow Koni or Yellow Bilstein B8.
b) get new coilovers

Any opinions whould be appreciated.

I would like something that wont make me loose my dental fillings on each pothole, and something I wont have to replace next year.
Well, well, well...
I've read the whole topic (one year on three pages ;) ) In my opinion it had to happen. Standard schocks are not dedicated to lowered springs. That's a fact! You made a huge impresive survey and took the wrong decision... In my opinion it's impossible to have stiff and comfortable suspension at the same time unless you buy eg. Ohlins.

My 147 has almost 100.000 km (4 years) on very poor Polish roads. I've been using different setups starting from OEM > Weitec lowered springs > yellow KONI with Eibach springs (Sport kit from 156 that has been already mentioned above) and finally back to Weitec springs with yellow KONI. It'a compromise. A difficult one. It's stiff, yez! It's less comfortable than OEM, yez! But the handling is perfect, no boucing, etc. It's a compromise with myself as only 4-5 time for yaer I use it on track day - the rest of the year I use it on poor roads. But since I can't afford KW wariant III it has to be like it is.

Suggestions, I'm very satisfied with yellow KONI (they has regulation which is not a full prof like 3 parameters in kW III; normally it is turned maximum soft > maximum hard only on the track).

I did a change in May 2004. There where absolutely no problems with them. 20.000 km passed, I think there is no difference in dumping force.

Before I took a decision I made I similar survey to yours including being in touch with product manager of KONI in Netherlands. His advices were really helpfull. Below is the quotation from his mail after I did a change.

"Good you fitted the inserts on the rear 8641-1381Sport, could not see this on pics! Front is 8041-1239Sport.

The KONI shocks are adjustable in rebound, the knob can be turned some / ca 2,5 turns to increase the rebound damping forces. You turn to the left to increase forces. Folow arrow!!! One turn is some 50% harder, 2 turns is double!
On the KONI website you can read about this as well ( www.koni.com)
If you want a less stiff suspension adjust to the zero position by turning knob against the arrow = to your right, until you cannot turn anymore. ( don’t force it!)

This should give you the most comfortable ride but do understand that these are Sport shocks so always harder than original !!!

Together with the KONI Sport shocks you mounted the Eibach springs which is a very good choice. I know Eibach very well and the quality is very good.

Do note that when lowering a car with lowering Sport springs the suspension also gets a bit harder, not many people realise this as well. We do always try to maintain a certain level of comfort in our products but when you buy Sport shocks you will always get a harder suspension ! On bad roads you will feel this even more!

Driving 40km/hour on a bad road with the shocks turned to max adjustment will make the suspension very stiff, damping is hard but road holding is good

Too hard is also bad because the car will be jumping and you want the wheels on the road!

If you do the same test with a car with no shocks, or worn shocks or standard shocks the bumps in the road will be dampened less, the car and chassis will move and you will have the feeling of loosing contact with the road, drive is jumpy but may feel comfortable.

I always say, when the road is bad and you want wheel – road contact and you drive at high speeds you require more damping. Sportshocks have mpre damping in rebound adjustment but also in bump forces ( responsible for road holding wheel – road contact)

Test a bit more and play with the adjustment until you are satisfied with the drive you like. Many people have different likings to the suspension set-up and this is why our adjustment is so well appreciated.
Succes with your nice Alfa
Best regards
Lodewijk Grooters"


Was it it helpfull ?
 
#61 ·
Hi Jomor,

I read with interest the whole thread, though I allready read it sometimes in the past. I am driving HR springs with OEM shocks now, so I guess your problems are waiting for me in the near future :) My shocks had 40000kms when I lowered the car, today 6 months later I have 50000km now. I havent noticed any negative impact on the shocks yet, but they will not last forever :) I am saving for B8 dampers now (or maybe yellow Koni - that is the question :) ), so I would be realy interested in your experience, no matter what set of dampers you get. Keep us posted.

BTW: I still have one idea. Couldnt I noticeably make my dampers life easier by getting OZ Superleggera rims? I think very light rims would improve the ride comfort and make the dampers last much longer.
 
#62 ·
@Lukas: Thanks for your answer.

I dont want comfort and stiffness at the same time as you wrote. I know thats not possible due to physics! I want something in the middle. Not too soft to be bumpy, not to harsh to loose my fillings.

I know i cant get the OEM comfort with the HRs ( and i dont really care) but i want a suspension which asborbs! I want the wheel to move up and down,
not the car up and down on tiny potholes. I dont think thats impossible, since the comfort with HR+oem shocks is quite impressive! If you ask me why i dont
get the original shocks again, thats because they started wearing out and making noises since 10.000kms on the clock, so i am afraid of their reliability.

@Gotcha: reading everybody's posts at AO and the greek forum, I was about to get the Konis. I went to the garage where i do the wheel alignments of all family cars
( whom i trust) and he discourage me by telling me the following: His buddy has a 147 and insisted on fitting Konis (since everybody was saying that Konis work better on Alfas) He removed them before 1000Kms, because they kept passing the vibrations inside the cabin even at the softest adjustment. They werent very harsh, but they where knocking, making suspension noises if you get my point. He fitted Bilisteins (because there was nothing else that worthed) and he doesnt have any complaints since now. The guy also told me that both at 147 and other cars the Bilsteins do filter the vibrations and dont pass any noises, they re not comfortable, but they re not too harsh either. He also offered to fit me the Konis he removed from his buddy, giving me a good discount, but he warned me that sooner or later i ll visit him again. I dont know.. I ll ask someone with HR+koni for a ride and see myself.

I ve been in a ride with a 147 with HR + Bilsteins B8 and i had the same experience, it was quite stiffer that the oem, but didnt make any noises, it was giving me
the feeling that the car doesnt "hurt" at all when passing speed bumps or potholes. Now that i ve tested B4 and B8, if I could, I would make a shock with the average
dumping force between them, and the reliability of the B8. That would be perfect for my taste. But thats science fiction :D




Btw my buddy has HR + standard shocks at his 147 Ti, and its very comfort, not too bumpy (as my B4 right now) and he has 15K on the clock till now. It should have been a
bit stiffer to corner with 200Kms if you get my point, but its great for daily driving. They make knokcing noise at the rear (as mine did) but they havent lost their damping yet.
Time will tell.

About light alloys, i believe they ll help the suspension to perform much better, but i dont know how much critical they re about reliability, the shocks reliability is mostly a matter of its internal parts
quality me thinks (and the driver's usage of course)
 
#67 ·
gotcha said:
BTW: I still have one idea. Couldnt I noticeably make my dampers life easier by getting OZ Superleggera rims? I think very light rims would improve the ride comfort and make the dampers last much longer.
This could work if you hadn't already put the 17''s on, which are heavier than the 15''s originally on your car. So your dampers have probably already sustained the extra strain.
 
#68 ·
ClaSSiC said:
Don´t forget light weighted tyres. Could be another 1 kg.
Are there any lightweight tyres on the market? I have never seen the weight when reading tyre specs.
 
#69 ·
jomor said:
Btw my buddy has HR + standard shocks at his 147 Ti, and its very comfort, not too bumpy (as my B4 right now) and he has 15K on the clock till now. It should have been a bit stiffer to corner with 200Kms if you get my point, but its great for daily driving. They make knokcing noise at the rear (as mine did) but they havent lost their damping yet.
Does TI have different shocks as standard 147?

Does anybody know, why are bilsteins for the rear axle so expensive? A pair of bilsteins for the front wheels is around 250Eur, for the rear ones 400Eur. Konis have almost the same price for front and rear.
 
#70 ·
jomor said:
I just noticed that my last post, is almost identical to the first one..... :eek:

I had to check the date when you have wrote it!!! :eek: :lol:
 
#71 ·
gotcha said:
Are there any lightweight tyres on the market? I have never seen the weight when reading tyre specs.
ClaSSiC said:
Don´t forget light weighted tyres. Could be another 1 kg.
Because only crazy alfisti ask about it :cheese: . I've been told that eg. Toyo P T1-S is one of the lighest 16" & 17" tyres. The guy who told this compared to Pirellis. He said that the differnce is ... ~1kg, YEZZZ :eek:

I think the easiest way is just to take weight to your tyre dealer and check the thngs out. I will go like this next time I buy tyres!


Also remember about so called "light" alloys. Some of them are by all means no light. To mention some really light ones

OZ Superlaggera weights 7,5 kg (17"), some Team Dynamics as well, Compomotive - CXR, 17" 7,5kg, ATS - DTM Competition, 8,5 kg. The save isabout 2-3-4 kg !!!


So, you buy a light tyre and really light alloy - total save per whell might be even 5 kg :eek: ! That must make a difference for suspension.
 
#72 ·
A huge difference!
 
#73 ·
gotcha said:
Does TI have different shocks as standard 147?

Does anybody know, why are bilsteins for the rear axle so expensive? A pair of bilsteins for the front wheels is around 250Eur, for the rear ones 400Eur. Konis have almost the same price for front and rear.
The TI afaik has different springs nor shocks. As for the Bilsteins you can get the B8 (all 4 of them) in Greece for 580-600 euros (including installation) whereas the yellow Konis are more expensive (probably due to the special struts for the rear shocks).
 
#74 ·
Lukas said:
OZ Superlaggera weights 7,5 kg (17"), some Team Dynamics as well, Compomotive - CXR, 17" 7,5kg, ATS - DTM Competition, 8,5 kg. The save isabout 2-3-4 kg !!! So, you buy a light tyre and really light alloy - total save per whell might be even 5 kg :eek: ! That must make a difference for suspension.
My Dezent T 7x17 wheels are 11,3kg. With superleggeras this makes almost 4 kg of unsprung weight difference. Now I have something to think about.....
 
#76 ·
jomor said:
Guys I would really appreciate it if this thread will be kept on topic (on suspensions) and not on tyres, alloys, bushes etc, so it will be useful for future reference, thank you.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hmm...ok, as the author of a highly off-topic answer I promise I'm gonna shut up. Anyway I thought myself those things have much in common with suspension thread... ;)
 
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