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speakers that are out of phase?

3K views 43 replies 5 participants last post by  folgore 
G
#1 ·
How do I tell if the speakers are connected properly? ie + to + and - to -
on the front set?
How do I test or will they simply go bang?
I think there was a thread about this not so long ago?

thanks
 
#27 ·
jomor said:
When you look the iso connector having its clip to the right, all the + terminals are the upper ones. Or when the speaker connector is plugged on the head unit, all the + wires are towards the top of the hu.
See the previous pic with the label, and then read the above comment. This will help you to understand the perspective. Besides, when you ll remove the hu, the plug will have the clip to the right ( since thats the way its plugged on the hu ) so why are you trying to understand the pinout with the opposite way (clip to the left) ?
 
#28 · (Edited)
Thanks Jomor - think you have misunderstood though, I was not trying to understand with the clip to the left, just was trying to clarify initially if you first diag was for the clip or HU, as at that stage I hadn't seen it. But all is very clear ref the clip now thanks, no probs at all, (though you and hoygs disagree which way round the Left and right pins are, both with the clip to the right :confused: - but from the CD you are certainly right :D Sorry Hoygs, but thank you).

Need to bear in mind that LHD and RHD have completly reversed wiring for the fronts, and euro 3 is different again (and mine is a mix of both, with some odd wires thrown in!)

The problem is wire colour is important especially for the fronts, where the wires at the clip are different to the speaker?

So I look at the clip pin; I know from your diag that a given pin is the +ve for the front R speaker for e.g. I look at the speaker end, but how do i then know which of those 2 wires is the +ve to match the connector end, especially when the colours at one end are totally different to the other? As I say the rear is easy as the colours match.


actually........DOH..... I just had a thought :rolleyes: :eek: ! rather than connect the battery direct to the actual speaker, I can just connect battery to the relevant connector pins, and if the speaker cone jumps out, its wired ok (who cares about the colour), if the cone jumps in, then I need to switch the wires at the speaker end around :rolleyes: oh thats a great idea so simple,- not sure that was what was ment for the battery, but it solves my problem!! cheers guys :) :D

that is the easy way to check your phase, dont even need to remove speakers to check - connect the battery to the HU CONNECTOR and watch the relevant speaker....DOH :rolleyes: :lol: Juis suis un idiot! :lol:

Still leaves the tweeter problem, FR, as the wire colours for main and tweet are different, so I can do above and get main speaker correct, but then cant match the tweeter wires to see if thats right? except the battery and bulb trick, send a current down the connectors +ve tweeter wire and see which wire at the tweeter makes the circuit? Lush

Je suis un genius :cheese:

I feel like I am havign a conversation with myself typing this reply!

Really, dont they say thats a sign of madness?

Some do, but really i see it as confidence in your self

Oh, but do you think thats misplaced?

Not really, everyone needs and edge, a little bit of madness keeps others on their toes, you know?

mmmmm

:D :D :D :D
 
#29 ·
Well the doctor told us not to disagree with you, so you are right, you are right !! :D :p

Hoygaard is not wrong, he presented the plug upside down ( I cant recall a single time he was proved wrong btw). If you turn hoyg's pinout 180 degrees, you ll get what i posted.

See how simplier is the battery trick instead of messing with the colours ? The front wires are usually differenct because they
stop at the door's connector, and continue with new wires inside the door. The rear wires are one piece from the head unit to the rear speakers.

To make sure your tweeters have the right polarity, use a mulitmeter to see if the - wire of the woofer is connected with the - wire of the tweeter.

Tweeter's polarity is a big issue. It doesnt mean that having the right polariry from an electrical point of view, that you ll have best sound.
It depends on the tweeter's relative position with the woofer. Sometimes it happens to have a wave cancelation at the crossover point
frequencies (at midrange - phase differences due to different loudpseaker positions and distances) and you have to invert tweeter's polarity to
deal with this cancelation. This sometimes degrades the soundstage even if it deals with the cancelation, so on some cars i prefer to move the tweeter
accordingly in a new location instead of reversing its phase.

Cheers
 
#30 ·
I must be bonkers - no offence Mel

any way, maybe that tweeter thingy is why one of them seems to have the + wire in '2' one side, '3' the other. So I will ID the wire at both ends (dont have a multimeter -may be able to borrow one though, or use the bulb circuit thing) to determin the + one and connect as per CD diag for the tweeters.

Nice one, thanks for effort



But you and Hoygs do differ if you just turn him over - see I had to check I was not going mad :p so wrote it out and turned it upside down! :rolleyes:

Hoygs original version

clip RR- RF- LF- LR-
RR+ RF+ LF+ LR+

hoygs turned upside down (trust me i turned the paper round!)
LR+ LF+ RF+ RR+ clip
LR- LF- RF- RR-

your and workshop cd
RR+ RF+ LF+ LR+ clip
RR- RF- LF- LR-


See, not the same ;) :) :rolleyes:

BUT have just noticed if you just swop the clip side and +/- (not the RR, LR etc) as opposed to turn upside down they match! :) :D

marvelloooous

gotta go late for meeting - Saturday a.m. :D , me and a battery!
 
#32 ·
err.......yes!

and right :p ;) he he

hey we need a smilie for 'Nutter' too :lol: - over to Mount Olympus for the forum 'Gods' to create
 
#34 ·
Do you know I did my speaker this w/e, from the connector, sending the battery +ve to the speaker +ve via connector making sure they popped out (one didn't so cured that by swopping speaker wire round), then the tweeters sent the current down with a bulb in line - each tweeter wire lit the bulb :rolleyes: BUT one made the same side main speaker jump, and figured that one of the wires made the circuit via the main, and the other didn't, so was able to also find out which tweeter wire did that, and from the diag put in the correct terminal location (the tweeter are deliberately out of phase as stated above)

And guess what, with it all wired right, the sound is bloody amasing! and now on high volume and high bass, bits of the door dont vibrate anymore like they did - it has now become the most worthwhile fix I have done on my bella :D :D :D It really made a HUGE Difference.

Oh, and jomor, you know what you said about Hoygs being right :rolleyes:

Well sorry but we are wrong he is right - Why? Well the connector block actually has 1-8 on it, and the clip is on the 1/2 end, not 7/8, and the numbers stamped on the connector do correlate exactly with the layout he said (as I recall)

Sorry Hoygs to doubt!

The wire colours are completely buggered

on diag rear connector to speaker wire colours should be the same, but are reverersed (colour on RR match connector colours for left rear and vice versa - but signal goes to correct speaker)

And fromthe diag front connector and speaker wire colours should be reversed L-R but RF isn't and LF has completely diff colours to anything!

Italian wiring :rolleyes:

Anyway the only sure way is the battery test from the connector, go by the numbers on the connector blocks, and sod the colours - make the all black!!!! ;)

Cheers guys for all they help

yes I am a little nuts ;) :D
 
#35 ·
Dupes, I do this for years, ice installers have a way to remember the wires, and here is the memo trick most of them do follow:

clip to the right
,
all + are up, all - are down
outer wires are Rear
inner wires are Front
wires to the left are left speakers
wires to the right are right speakers

this also agrees with the sticker on every Alfa 937 unit. its been like that for years for all manufacturers, and you re not getting me nuts no matter how hard you ll try !! :p :D

Anyway I m happy you corrected the phases and restored your sound quality. :)

About the tweeters, do try them both ways, with inversed polarity and correct polarity, and see it yourself which one sounds better in YOUR car. Leave them at where they sound better, at woofers we follow the rules, at tweeters our ears.

PS: About wiring, do trust me, look what I figured out when I came to work :rolleyes:
You see? Your alfa could be worse :D
 
#37 ·
folgore, just do the battery trick from the clip, looking at the numbers stamped into the clip - that way you see which speaker moves, and which way - quite easy really -you dont need to read the debates above. :rolleyes: ;)

You just need the 'rules' and a 9V battery thats it (well also screw driver/stereo removal tools etc!)

Jomors rules above match my clip, and match what Hoygs said (though upside down) at the start (not what jomor said after Hoygs first post, where he said Hoygs was bit wrong ;) :rolleyes: )

There was no sticker anywhere on my head unit - its a clarion orig equipment one, so dont rely on there being a sticker on the head unit, even if original like mine

The wiring diags off the CD are pretty much complete rubbish - factamundo (except for showing the tweeters as out of phase maybe - tried both and does sound MUCH better than in phase on mine), the wire colours are rubbish, so trust the rules, and mainly the battery trick, from the clip. Then it is

a) easy
B) does not matter about wires colour etc, so long as all the speakers pop out with battery +/- connected to corresponding +/- on clip!
C) Enjoy decent sound and no vibrating door panels :D

Should take you about 30-40 mins I reckon
 
#39 ·
But there are 4, possibly 5 listening positions (seats) so I need a switchable set up then??? :lol: ;)

It sounds great, especially when loudish, clean crisp clear base, lurrrvly. all thats vibrates is my body now. :eek: :lol:

Weird, I guess that when out of phase the door panels vibrated at times out of phase with 3 from 4 speakers so you could hear it? anyway seems to of gone now (hope I am not jinxing it), so no need to strip my door and stick felt all over the loose bits! :p
 
G
#44 ·
folgore said:
Thanks for all your input boys. The drivers side speakers were out of phase due to my wiring! :D
To end this thread then.

1. Never trust Alfa wiring diagram, they change colour halfway through the door.
2. If rewiring speakers and cross over units make notes.
3. Have a 9V battery and some wires handy along with all 40 odd threads.
4. When happy with results ... don`t screw with it.

Now my next question is .....positioning the CD autochanger! :cheese:
 
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