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2k 146 1.4 Failed NCT on emissions

4K views 30 replies 7 participants last post by  Miaspa 
#1 ·
Hi Guys
Can anyone advise on the possible cost to repair fuel emission problems on the 146.
The results were:
Lambda = 0.881(needs to be within 0.97 and 1.03)
CO = 4.12vol%(above 0.3% is a fail)

Am I going to be on bread and water for the next few months while I pay for this ? One garage said it could be up to €1000 to repair, the others refuse to estimate until I pay them €100 labour just to look at the thing !

Mcguinn, thanks for any help you can provide.
By the way, I'm in ireland, so if you know of any decent mechanics that wont take my arm and leg from me I would appreciate their info.

Thanks in advance.
 
G
#2 ·
I bet it's the lambda probe that's away. The part from Alfa is about £70, but you can get a "Universal" one from a motor factors for much less. Fitting is easy and you could do it yourself. It screws into the exhaust on the top in front of the catalytic converter, then the wire will go up into the engine bay, probably beside the bulkhead somewhere. It has 2 plugs on the end, one for the probe heater and one for the probe signal.
 
#3 ·
Hey, at a guess, that one looks like it's the Lambda probe alright. It's running rich.
To be honest, garages never quote accurately, and the reason is that they don't want to estimate for a job and find that the cost rises by 3 times the estimate because of another unforeseen problem. I got mine fixed for 250 or so, and that included a lambda probe and testing on the emissions tester machine...

The lambda probe feeds-back info on how well the engine is burning it's mix of fuel and air, and the ECU adjusts it accordingly.
Best thing to do is to call Gerry Campbell in TI Autos on Cowper St, (off the Nrth Circular Rd). Again he won't quote a price, but don't worry, he's cheap compared to dealers, and has a great name.

T. I. Auto Engineers Ltd
1 Cowper st, 7
(01) 8386567

Tell him I sent you!
 
#4 ·
Mcguinn you can always change your name to Gerry if you think it's that great :D:D

Mooey, Have you tried running some injector cleaner though your tank ?? STP or Redex are good brands.
Is your air filter clean ? Are the breather pipes clean ?
All these things can help to reduce emissions...
Thing is you either have to try them and get retested or try them and get it tested in a garage... Catch22
Echoin' McgGuinn's recommendation go to Ti. Although he was away on holiday..dunno if he's back yet
 
#5 ·
Yeah, Gerry McGuinn?

I was informed that the el-cheapo lambda probes aren't worth the effort and only last 2 yrs...
And as Toad said, you have to get an emissions test done too. If that doesn't pass (as in it's not the lambda) you've wasted the money.

Off to Gerry! He doesn't take holidays... he's too commited!
 
#6 ·
Hey Guys
Thanks for the speedy responses. I can sleep easy now knowing I dont have to donate some body parts to pay for this work.
Gerry Campbell is on hols until 20th July. My NCT re-test is due before 26th July, hopefully Gerry will get my message and chalk me down for the service as soon as he gets back.
Again, thanks lads.
 
#8 ·
When you say not cheap on a T. Spark toad, how drastic are you talking ?
I was beginning to think I was looking at about €250. Is this right or am I way off the mark ?
Also, you say change the plugs, is the urban legend true about the TS plug cost because each has 2 heads ?. I have been told this job costs in the region of €800. Tell this is just a myth mate, please !

Thanks for your reply.
 
#9 ·
Aaah so you found the forum then. The Spark Plugs are expensive because being a Twin Spark you've got two per cylinder (eight in total) they're also fairly decent spark plugs. It's not outrageous. Off the top of my head I think it cost me about £150 to get mine changed, but you only need to do it every 60,000 miles or so.
 
#10 ·
I'm assuming this is Tom B ?
You were right mate, the lads here know their stuff and McGuinn has helped out. Toad has said the emissions fix on a twin spark is not cheap though so as a little concerned again.. :confused:
Anyway, will wait to see what else I get on it.
Thanks for your help.
 
#11 ·
I think Toad fumbled his keyboard... too many late nights with an air gun...
He was referring to the spark-plugs and the cost of them as a set.

The emissions test is not expensive, €40 I reckon... It's not technically difficult to perform.
So if you were to get a lambda sensor fitted, it wouldn't be the worst plan.
I think Toad is correct in saying that he wouldn't leave it till the 20th, it's too tight. Gerry will be busy.
 
#12 ·
I have booked in to the Airton Alfa Centre in Tallaght for next week. I may buy a Lambda sensor beforehand and ask that they install it and then test it, rather than let them spend a couple of hours on it at my monetary expense. Does anybody know that this dealer is like ?
 
#14 ·
Well, left the car with the dealers yesterday and collected it some 5 hours later. They did not spend this amount of time looking at it but the long and the short of it is that they DID NOT fix the emissions problem, nor did they determine what the fault is. I am now being told that I have to give them the car for a whole day of which they will charge me 3 hours labour at €78 + VAT and hour, and this is to carry out more diagnostics ! They say the Lambda sensor seemed to be working fine but that does not mean the ECU is interpretting the signal properly. He suggested (as a worse case scenario) replacing the ECU(Recon) €500 and Lambda Sensor €160, plus the labour charges on top of that, but that he thinks the 3 hours diagnostics is a better option as there may simply be a break in a cable(makes sense, I think). What annoys me is that I was told all the diag's would be carried out in an hour, now I'm being told that they need the car for a day to run the diag's and they then have to fax the details to FIAT and wait for their response ! They cannot take the car back until week after next, meaning that I'm cutting it fine with NCT retest date.
Any ideas anybody ?
 
#15 ·
First my condolences!
ECU's do go wrong, but it is just about the least likely to be the problem. The dealer doesn't sound too competent to me.Why suggest changing the Lambda sensor if it is supposed to be OK?
The most probable causes of a rich mixture are:-
1)The lambda sensor or its wiring(broken or corroded)
2)The coolant temperature sender or its wiring.
 
#16 ·
Have just heard back from the garage that is looking at my emissions problem and they say there are 2 problems. The airflow meter is shot and they believe the Lambda is also go. It will cost roughly €830 inc vat ! Have no idea what the airflow meter is but does the above cost look right to you guys ? Have to call the garage back asap with the go-ahead as they have to buy the parts.
Would appreciate any input you lads can provide asap.
Thanks.
 
#17 ·
Mooey,

Sorry to see it wasn't a simple fault...
The lambda is about €120 and I have heard that a Air Flow Meter is up to €300... maybe somebody could confirm?
Is labour is added on this rate, then it could be correct...
How many hours have the worked on it and what rate are they on?
 
#18 ·
Well he replaced front brakes and discs last week and rear brakes.... plus he also said he replaced the plugs as they were shot to hell. He charged me €350 all in. I am a bit confused re the plugs though cos I heard they cost a fortune to replace on the Alfa's but he charged me less that €100 I reckon. For labour last week he charged me €60. The guy in all honest seemed pretty genuine. Alfa in airton told me my brakes would only last another 200 miles max and they refused to put pads on unless I replaced all the discs, yet this guy called me and told me the rear discs did not need to be replaced !
 
#21 ·
The name of the garage is Auto City, Bluebell. They are on the Kylemore road. Just after you go over the bridge towards The cross, there is a left turn before the Esso garage at the lights. Mike was the guy I dealth with. He quoted me worse case scenario of €830 to get the emissions fixed. He did it for €470 !!!!
He got a reconditioned Air Control Meter and a new Lambda. The wasters on the Airton road told me that my Lambda sensor was fine, but he shows you the parts he replaces and the Lambda was knackered ! So I paid those shams on the Airton Road €90 for some bulbs and a handbrake bolt... gangsters.
I will be sticking with this guy ! Its Seldom you find a genuine mechanic in Dublin!
 
#22 ·
Mooey said:
Hi Guys
Can anyone advise on the possible cost to repair fuel emission problems on the 146.
The results were:
Lambda = 0.881(needs to be within 0.97 and 1.03)
CO = 4.12vol%(above 0.3% is a fail)

Thanks in advance.
My 145 failed its MOT on exactly the opposite today

Lambda = 1.082(needs to be within 0.97 and 1.03)
CO = 0.00vol%(above 0.3% is a fail)
HC = 10ppm vol (needs to be less than 200)

So I failed on the lambda reading being 0.052 over, anyone got any clever ideas?
 
#23 ·
That means you are running rich.
More than likely this is a faulty sensor...

http://www.picotech.com/auto/lambda_sensor.html

"If the average voltage from the lambda sensor is running high (more than 0.50V), it indicates a rich condition, possibly due to a bad MAP, MAF or Air Flow sensor or leaky injector. If the average voltage reading is running low (less than 0.45V), the mixture is running lean possibly due to a vacuum leak or because the sensor itself is bad."
"If a heated sensor has a faulty heating circuit or element, the sensor can cool off at idle causing the system to go into open loop. This usually results in a fixed, rich fuel mixture that will increase emissions."

I think a trip to the garage is required.
Cost of a Lambda is about £90, but requires testing after fitting.
 
#25 ·
The engine is running on a weak mixture (CO < 0.3%). The Lambda sensor is producing only a low voltage signalling the ecu to enrich the mixture.The mixture is not being sufficiently enriched hence the low CO reading.
You most likely have an air leak somewhere on the intake side.
 
#26 ·
Ramian said:
The engine is running on a weak mixture (CO < 0.3%). The Lambda sensor is producing only a low voltage signalling the ecu to enrich the mixture.The mixture is not being sufficiently enriched hence the low CO reading.
You most likely have an air leak somewhere on the intake side.
So let me get this straight, so a high lambda is a weak mixture? :eek:
 
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