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GTV 2.0 TB Engine problems

11K views 23 replies 6 participants last post by  Rocketfueler 
#1 · (Edited)
I just bought a 1996 GTV 2.0 Turbo Benzina V6 with 185000km on it. Since its a rare car in the UK I thought it would be useful to dokument my problems and solutions with this car.

Current issues:

It bogs and stalls above 2500 rmps
The engine is running cold (Solved)
The battery is dead (Solved)
The drivers side door sags, difficult to open.
Runs rough at idle when "warm"
Drivers seat torn in several places.
Servo oil circuit leaks somewhere.

The service history is missing from 130000km when it left Germany to be importet to Norway, save for an Invoice for a full bottom end repair (new crank, oilpan, seals, piston rings and drive belt with tensioner) at 160000 after a stone meets oilpan accident.

I would be very happy for any input on the way
 
#2 · (Edited)
First thing I did was order cables and software from Sander QV to diagnose the engine. He is very helpful, highly recomended.
I also found an original thermostat on ebay. After replacing that the temperature is ok.
I ordered all service parts from a company in germany and await those. I figure its pointless to do anything until I know the filters give free flow of air and fuel.
Replaced the battery. Its smart to look around. Buy the battery with the largest amp/h possible, no less than 70. I bought a banner battery thats very good quality and half the price of the others.
 
#3 ·
I just bought a 1996 GTV 2.0 Turbo Benzina V6 with 185000km on it. Since its a rare car in the UK I thought it would be useful to dokument my problems and solutions with this car.

Current issues:

It bogs and stalls above 2500 rmps

Runs rough at idle when "warm"


I would be very happy for any input on the way

For both points above I would give spark plugs, ignition leads, and ignition rotor+distribution a thorough check. Might do the trick.

Cheers
Martijn
 
#6 ·
The Squadra chips (one for main ECU, one for the ignition ECU for the TB) are excellent. Stefan from Squadra really knows his stuff very well and likes to install his chips himself. He makes sure your engine is running ok without sensor errors (he has an Fiat/Alfa Examiner for that) so in that way you won't be dissapointed because your engine might be running at 75% as a sensor somewhere is not doing it's work. These chips will not give you extra errors or weird symptoms; it's the same car, just with a bit of pepper up its **** :rolleyes: [V6TB will go from 201bhp to 230bhp]

After chipping: engine 'wants' to go more, very eager to do some work, turbo kicks in a bit sooner and on highway in 5th it goes a lot quicker overtaking compared to before. There are no drawbacks up to now, I have the chip for 2 years and even my fuel consumption went down :wow: All in all a fair bit of money, but 100% worth it!

If you like Alfa's....just....cannot.....resist...:D
 
#7 ·
Hi,

I have problem with 2,0 V6 TB.
Engine jolts when accelerating at full throttle. Seems like fuel or ignition is cut off. That is when boost reaches over 0,9 bar. It can reach as much as 1,3 - 1,4 bar so it's too much. The car is in Alfa authorised workshop and they don't know what's going on.
Spark plugs, ignition leads, and ignition rotor+distribution are brand new.
Solenoid valve seems to work ok.
Wastegate valve seems to work ok.

What else should they check? Is it true that this engine doesn't have pressure sensor in inlet manifold and cuts off fuel/ignition based on other data?

Thanks
 
#9 ·
Correct as in the car has no pressure sensor to regulate or measure the turbo pressure. Pressure is 'regulated' by the waste gate that is switched according throttle position and engine RPM. Is your car chipped? Normally ~0.8 bar is the normal turbo pressure with a +0.3/0.4bar boost when the overboost kicks in. A standard TB would reach 1.1bar so the 1.3-1.4 seems too much for a standard TB.

I would check all electrical connections from both ECU's to sensors, especially the wastegate/pierburg valve ones. Sometimes just pulling the plug from the ECU, give a spray with WD40 or similar will already help.
You can also give the blow-off valve a thorough check; could easily that it is pushed open by the (too) high pressure when the boost comes in.
A third thing, but that should the workshop be able to read out from the ECU, is the two knock sensors might give an intermittent signal. If that happens the engine goes into 'emergency-mode' what might give the jolting.

good hunting!
Cheers
 
#8 · (Edited)
To Akiryz: Speaking without any prior experience with this engine I would check for fuel problems. I guess you have problems where the fuel demand is very high and a clogged filter or degraded pump would not be able to feed the engine at this point. You would then experience a very lean condition when the turbocharger pumps in lots of air. You could even experience a backfire.

To Speakerdoctor: A squadra chip it is then :)
Does you name imply knowledge about speakers for this car? My own sound rubbish and I want to swap them with the largest membranes I can fit without modifying the car.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thanks, but it's not fuel problem - I have also LPG installation and the car behaves same way...
I don't know if it has been chipped.
ECU has no faults stored in memory.
Open blow-off valve would result in lower pressure - mine is higher than should be.

How is then engine protected? Let's imagine someone shortened wastegate actuator rod so wastegate valve is dead closed.
Throttle is full open and RPM rise - ECU gives signal to solenoid valve - it bleeds air to move wastegate rod and open wastegate - but it's closed. Pressure rises and rises - if there is no fuel/ignition cut off engine will eventually blow.
 
#11 ·
If the turbo could keep up (I believe it can only push enough air up to 250bhp) and the fuel injection would also be able to squirt enough fuel to get the turbo spooling faster again -Yes, then the engine would spin off in an inevitable blow.

But basically because the fuel injectors just cannot deliver enough, and the turbo is also limited in what it can maximally deliver, that sort-of makes a mechanical safety. And you of course have your ignition cut-out at 6500rpm that will kick in.
Ow and I just remembered; the air/volume flow meter is used as a safety. If the air volume exceeds a certain value, it will cut the ignition. I think that that's what you are experiencing, once the turbo gets over a certain 'safety' value, e.g. 1.2/1.3 bar that equals that such and so much air, it will do something to stop that. Could be the waste-gate that it opens or cutting the ignition until all is safe again.

The V6 TB is not a very complicated engine control wise :rolleyes: you can notice that in the way all engine functions are run. But it does kick *** :p
 
#14 · (Edited)
Mine when is connected with Alfa Examiner shows ''replace unit EZ212K''.Do you know something about it?I measured the resistance of my cables and found them between 2.65k.ohm and 2.75 k.ohm.Is that right?
How can i measure the first cylinder detection sensor and the pinging sensors?On pinging sensors i tested all three cables and didn't found resistance.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Mine when is connected with Alfa Examiner shows ''replace unit EZ212K''.Do you know something about it?
That's the ignition ECU, it does part of the ignition timing but also controls the waste-gate and overboost.

1st cylinder detection is just a simple coil around the 1st ignition lead. As its a coil, resistance should be <3ohm I believe (service manual).

Resistance of the ignition leads I presume with 2.7Kohm? I believe on the plugs it says the resitance, but as long as all leads measure roughly the same it seems fine.

Pinging/knock sensors are actually piezo elements, so cannot be measured with just a multimeter. What you can do is measure the wiring from ECU to knock sensors. I had a faulty ground/shield connection of one of my wires to the ECU. If one of them does not work, the Examiner should tell that....but they are connected to the EZ212k so if that's faulty it might also not read the knock sensors right.
 
#17 ·
In that case I would suspect the wiring loom between the two ECUs. I would unplug both and measure the correct pins that connect the two (see service manual for wiring schematic). You could also give the PCBs of the ECUs a good look, could be a break in the PCB itself.
 
#24 ·
Left the GTV unused outside after experiencing transmission/drive line problems. I suspect I have killed one of the drive axles. I felt like a front wheel was about to come off and hammering my brake caliper. I left it for too long and when I tried to start it, it refused to start. I feared the worst and pushed it in to the garage. I have now managed to get hold of a 98mod 2.0 TB engine with complete drive line to swap if necessary. I tried to crank it again yesterday and could not hear any fuel pump action when turning the key. A struggling fuelpump could possible explain some of my original engine problems too.

Anyone with the original springs laying around? Not much clearance between oilpan/turbo and the ground with this lowering kit. Some parts around the handbrake have been torn off. Prob. mess up the wheel geometry too.
 
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