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Raplace a 2.0ts with 1.8ts engine

3K views 40 replies 9 participants last post by  jug 
#1 ·
Alfa 156 W reg 2.0ts 79.000miles fsh
my engine is chucking out a load of smoke (oil smell) so instead of trying 2 repair it i was thinking of changing the engine, i can get hold of a 1.8ts engine 4 cheap, does any1 no if it would be a strait forward swap.
Thanks in advance
 
#2 ·
Don't do it, you will miss the power and severly affect the value of the car.

Instead. pour a bottle of Forte engine flush into your engine, run at fast idle for 20 minutes, then refill with quality 10/40w oil. replace the air filter and get a diagnostic run on the lambda sensor and Maf sensor. So much cheaper than a new engine.
 
#3 ·
i bought the car cheap due 2 the constant smoking, i wouldn't miss the power as its my first Alfa, when i went 2 see the car it was smoking constantly from the exhaust and didn't seem 2 get any better as it warmed up, i went the next day 2 collect the car, when i started it i noticed there was very little smoke, my friend followed me back home and said the only time there was any smoke was when i pulled away, parked the car up, started her up 2 days later and the smoke is back, the car starts and runs fine.
I will try what you have suggested 2morrow, if that doesn't work its back to the engine change, i just hope its a strait forward swap
 
#4 ·
my thoughts are the piston rings have detiorated, thus causing the smoke. Forte enigne flush is known to work wonders on engines because it clears laminate deposits and gunk build up. it also works wonders on piston rings (don't ask me how, but i have heard very positive stories on the punto mk2 forum).

What colour is the smoke?

Black = overfueling (new lambda or possibly maf)
Blue = Burning oil - worn valve guides and/or piston rings (engine flush as above)
White = Burning water - (Head gasket)
 
#6 ·
yep, sounds like piston rings/valve guides. Give the flush and quality oil a try first (and clean the plugs). if that doesn't work then rebuild/replace is the only other way to go.
 
#7 ·
have flushed the engine with forte engine flush, changed the oil and filter, it has reduced the smoke until revved, when you rev the engine its black/gray smoke now, its a light grey when ticking over. a friend done a compression test they all registered at around 180 he also checked the coil packs and injectors all OK, he also said the oxygen sensor was working, not sure what 2 do next
 
#9 ·
Unfortunately a compression test that shows good results isn't conclusive proof that the piston rings or bores are OK. If you are going to pursue the problem with your current engine further then I suggest getting a leakdown test done. This doesn't rely on moving pistons to generate compression but instead, compressed air is pumped into the cylinders and the amount of leakage is measured. The difference with this test is that the tester can keep moving the engine round and redoing the test thus testing compression with the piston at a different position in the bore and do the same test. If you have wear or scoring on one part of the bore then a leakdown test will highlight this whereas a compression test won't. It's sounds unlikely that you have the equipment to do a leakdown test yourself so you will need to get a garage to do it for you.

If a leakdown test shows all clear then I would then you most likely have worn valve guides or worn valve guide seals.
 
#8 ·
Hmmm - to answer your original question you can replace the 2.0 with a 1.8 - no physical problems - just bolt on all your ancilliaries - manifolds, throttle body, etc. The 1.8 has one less belt to worry about as it doesn't have balance shafts.

But before going down that route....I think a bit more checking.....compressions don't sound too bad, so my first thought would be faulty lambda sensor - but it sounds as if your man has checked that. Faulty temp sensors can also cause overfuelling - might be worth checking.....

I'm sure you'll get other advice....
 
#10 ·
Thanks for all your help but i think i will see if the 1.8ts engine is still on offer, by the time i have changed sensors and had a leakdown test probably to find it still smokes i could have the engine in.
i am sick of driving around in my vectra
thanks again to all
 
#11 ·
There isn't that much of a drop from the 2.0 to 1.8and after all the 1.8 is as the engine was designed and then altered to the the other sizes, it is also the most reliable variant of all the Twinnys, but then ewhen it's in you can if you like look into fixing the 2.0 lump.
 
#12 ·
Was there a cambelt failure in the past ? if they overhauled the head and did not renew the pistons, then this is the result, stuck piston ring because the piston rims were hit by the valves and cause the piston rings not moving freely. I have seen a couple of 156's with this problem !
 
#13 ·
as far as i am aware there hasn't been a cambelt failure, the oil smell has gone now, i have been told it smells like unburnt fuel, i can change parts no problem, but when it comes to fault finding i haven't got a clue.
is there anywhere i can get information of what has been done to the car in the past
 
#15 ·
Knackered cams alone won't cause burnt oil to appear from your exhaust. For that to happen, oil needs to be getting into the cylinder bores and/or the exhaust outlet airway. There is only one of two ways oil can get into the bores...past the piston rings from the sump, or in through the valve guides from the head.

Therefore, regardless of the state of the exhaust cam, you still have worn piston rings/bores and/or worn valve guides/seals.
 
#17 ·
after the engine flush, oil and filter change the oil smell and blue smoke has gone its now more grey/black smoke, cant seem 2 find any breakers that are willing to sell the cams, picking the 1.8ts engine up over the weekend if it hasn't gone by then
 
#18 ·
The 1.8TS and 2.0TS engines both use the same cams so if you do get that engine at the weekend then at least try swapping the cams from that one over to yours first before contemplating a complete engine swap.

I still believe the problem lies elsewhere but I guess you have nothing to lose by trying some different cams.
 
#19 ·
Whatever has caused the cams to wear has probably caused the bores, rings or valve stem oil seal to wear as well.

This sort of thing usually happens when the engine is not serviced often enough.
 
#21 ·
Exactly what state are the cams in? Can you post up some pictures?
 
#22 ·
There was an issue with some cams having a poor quality case-hardening was there not? Although it thought this was only very early TS engines.
The metal from the worn cams will cause havoc in the rest of the engine once it gets into the oil.

GE will know about this, as it affects Fiat Coupe 16V and Lancia integrale engines as well. :rolleyes:
 
#23 ·
I'm wasn't actually aware of cam quality issues in the TS engine but it is certainly true of the Fiat 16vt and integrale cams. However, on those cars it's actually the later (newer) cams which are poor quality and is down to the hardening process used as stated. Anyone needing new cams for a 16vt are advised to get a good set of secondhand ones and not brand new ones [sorry, gone a little bit off topic].

Anyway, that said, any metal that has come from the cams and found it's way down into the engine will indeed have caused some kind of accelerated wear in the engine components.
 
#26 ·
Wardsta, make sure you change the oil and filter straight away after fitting the new cams. You don't want the particles of metal floating about the engine.
Just for peace of mind sake. :thumbs:
 
#28 · (Edited)
I haven't see exhaust cams as bad as that although I have seen inlet cams badly worn. Usually the ones under the oil filler.

I have always argued that the 12,000 mile service interval on these engines is too long and this sort of backs it up, however you can never be sure how previous owners have treated the car, they might have habitually revved it whilst cold for example.

Using a too thick oil will aggravate the problem as well.
 
#32 ·
the pic of that worn cam lobe suggests oil circulation problems, most likely due to low oil level or a blockage. i'd run it with 2 cans of engine flush for 15mins @ 3500rpm.

well it's all back together, no smoke for 5mins then gave it a rev and my drive was full of black smoke :cry: , it's not smoking on tick over anymore until revved.
it's running perfect apart from the black smoke
either piston rings or valve stem oil seals, a simple compression test (dry then wet) will tell you which it is.
 
#30 ·
The black smoke suggests that you may have MAF or lambda sensor issue. If it has been like it for a while it is possible that the excess fuel from the rich mixture has contaminated the oil and accelerated the wear on the cams.

Thats my theory anyway, :rolleyes:
 
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